Posted on 05/09/2009 12:47:21 PM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
Yesterday I happened upon a post by a fellow FReeper. In retrospect, I am sorry for responding rudely to their post - and I hope they happen upon this apology.
The post was presenting their heartfelt opinion that American industry and our system itself must be allowed to come apart so that something better can replace it.
It was a Rand-ian position. The system is becoming oppressive, therefore we must weaken it.
“Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) administrator William Reilly described the North AMerican Free TRade Agreement as the “the greenest trade agreement ever.” Reilly’s conclusion waqs based on a number of procedural and substantive advances in integrating trade and environmental goals that were achieved during the course of NAFTA negotiations.”
The Global Environment, Norman J. Vig and Regina S. Axelrod
You, Clinton, algore and manbearpig must be delighted that you can promote enviro-nonsense and falsely attribute it to Reagan at the same time.
Would that be the Honda built in Ohio, or the Ford built in Canada? The BMW made in Atlanta, or the Chevy built in Mexico?
Please, tell me which one is "American" that I may buy according to your statements!
Hey genius, Obama is increasing our troop commitment in Afghanistan. Will Bush now (hypothetically) claim he wasn't in favor of the WOT?
The Chevy built in Mexico, obviously. Because if you buy the Honda from Ohio, the profits don’t stay in America. Don’t laugh, that’s the way they think.
I would have gone for the Ford in Canada, but I’m a Ford man...:)
And I have yet to have one of the protectionists even give me an answer to this question, let alone the reasoning!
insourcing is bad because the profits are expatriated, butIf you ask if outsourcing profits are repatriated and insourcing creates jobs, you get dumbfounded silence.
outsourcing is bad because jobs are lost.
The problems with an economy that is not governed outside our Congress (unlike the current global economy model) is that you have politicians who make tariff decisions based upon their voters interest - not in the interest of the overall economy.
In the past that caused the lock on Congress by the Labor Unions who made 40k mile die cars and forced us all to buy them with market protections paid for by the Unions and protected by the Liberal Democrats. In reality these Unions Liberals did not care about the Union worker and the workers finally figured out they were much poorer for giving a lot of their pay check, self determination and their votes to corrupt Union bosses. That is when Reagan came along...
So your observation about the unworkability of the globalists' economy due to the crash is excellent yet it has a sorrid history in unmoveable far left corruption and control you and other Republicans need to think carefully about. In France, we see "the working people" holding bosses hostage because the Left has stoked a whole social and economic culture around dependence, jealously and hate for wealth and business ownership that it is disgusting and poverty reproducing. It is a country of peasants - the thing our forefathers fled. The greatest part of the idea of canceling out global trade treaties and moving to a National centered fair trade model is destroying the elite's dreams of global government rule and global control. I would love to see the Left's multiculturalism model die as since we are no longer "workers and citizens of the global marketplace" we no longer have a need to be their tribes. The global economy - wealth and production - controled outside the reach of democracies, is the linchpin of the scheme. You change one thing; you change everything. By the way, Rinos and Democrats won't allow this to happen and anyone who speaks about it is cursed more than even the most hated "right wing extremist" in the Nation. As you can see on this thread - no messing with globalism or you are a knuckle dragging "Nationalist"! Thinking outside the box would probably put you on a Homeland Security list, too!:)
There are hundreds, if not thousands, of sources regarding the environmental junk your guys Clinton and Gore negotiated under NAFTA. Your ignorant and/or dishonest claim that the NAFTA agreement signed by Bill Clinton was actually Ronald Reagan's has been exposed as crap.
That's not true. In fact, the "nationalists" (your term, did anyone else even use it? are you using it simply as the opposite of "globalist?") on this thread want to reshape the U.S. in the model of France. And if they succeed, then it truly won't be long until you see "'the working people' holding bosses hostage because . . . [of] a whole social and economic culture around dependence, jealously and hate for wealth and business ownership."
So your problem with NAFTA isn’t the free trade, but the acceptance of environmental regulations? You’re for free trade, just not if other countries get to define their own environmental, labor, and business laws?
You have posted not a single shred of evidence that Reagan repudiated his support for NAFTA (or the WTO, for that matter). You're not even smart enough to know you're being dishonest.
“Japan is part of the problem. This is where government can be legitimately involved. That is, to convince the Japanese in one way or another that, in their own interests, that deluge of cars must be slowed while our industry gets back on its feet...” —Ronald Reagan
RINOs hate Reagan, while pretending he was one of them.
The NAFTA agreement negotiated by Bill Clinton and algore wasn't Reagan's, no matter how many times and ways you try to falsely imply that it was.
Which one? Reagan's or Clinton's?
I’ll post it again:
So your problem with NAFTA isn’t the free trade, but the acceptance of environmental regulations? You’re for free trade, just not if other countries get to define their own environmental, labor, and business laws?
Either one - you are fine with the free trade part?
Simple question: Reagan's or Clintons?
And the Blue Collar Cat'lick folks who voted for Reagan still voted for socialists like Cuomo in local elections. Their children and grandchildren in the northeast went to college and/or elsewhere.
WTF should I care about a bunch of trade unionist SOCIALISTS who have been going away to the cemetaries and social security anyway? Why should we go after a (literally) DYING portion of the electorate who only voted GOP (on a national basis) because they hated blacks being bussed into their neighborhoods and being passed over for affirmative action.
BTW: Reagan pushed De La Madrid for Free Trade with Mexico, but the latter refused.
Social(ist) "conservatives" make me want to vomit.
Funny, both had free trade as their foundation. I’m talking about the common concept of free trade in both.
How about you tell me how they differed in terms of free trade? How is the NAFTA that Reagan proposed different from the NAFTA that George HW Bush got Canada and Mexico to sign (prior to Clinton’s inauguration)?
I'll call your empty bluff. Prove it. Quotes, please.
By the way, Obama is promising even more changes to the evolving NAFTA agreement to incorporate additional labor and environmental provisions. Is "free trade" the foundation of Obama's position, like you claim it was for Bill Clinton?
What I wrote agreed with you. Tinkering with the current global free trade system threatens us with the possibility of living like the French with the Left in control of the economy. We have Obama, for example.
Is it just either/or? Debt/poverty/global elite control or Frenchish, stinky Leftist evil weavels running the show? Is there another way? By default the Left wins because Republicans will NOT examine the issue of the US role in the global economy. We are a first world country looking more and more like the third world Nations we compete with. We are losing the middle class to those countries with no middle class.
By leaving it to default or going along with business as usual (we do debt to buy an excess of things/they produce the things and give us the loans) with offering or considering no reflection and no change after we all know about the US role in the global economy is a charade. It is leaving it to the Obama Left to “fix.”
Believe me, the last thing I want is the far Left’s culture of social hatred and the poverty of their economic jealousy.
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