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Is globalism and "free trade" what's destroying the GOP? (America-first vanity)

Posted on 05/09/2009 12:47:21 PM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network

Yesterday I happened upon a post by a fellow FReeper. In retrospect, I am sorry for responding rudely to their post - and I hope they happen upon this apology.

The post was presenting their heartfelt opinion that American industry and our system itself must be allowed to come apart so that something better can replace it.

It was a Rand-ian position. The system is becoming oppressive, therefore we must weaken it.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Society
KEYWORDS: bush; clinton; freetrade; globalism; gop; outsourcing; readdailykos; reagan; reaganfetishists; reaganwas4freetrade; sellout; socialismnow; votenader2012; voteunionyes; waaaaah; welcomedulurkers; workersworldunite
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To: PugetSoundSoldier
Managed trade, not free trade.

"Free trade" isn't managed? So the 2000+ pages of NAFTA regulations aren't "free trade"?

321 posted on 05/11/2009 3:38:47 PM PDT by Mojave (Don't blame me. I voted for McClintock.)
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To: Mojave

Why would he be surprised? I’m curious.


322 posted on 05/11/2009 3:40:10 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy; Mojave
(If I may interject?)

I know danged well when I've administered a beating .... it's when I get the You're a racist 'cause you don't.....

323 posted on 05/11/2009 3:40:46 PM PDT by investigateworld ( Abortion stops a beating heart.)
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To: calcowgirl; PugetSoundSoldier
There you go again.

Heheh.

They seem to be intent on proving the Ronald Reagan was not a "free trader" while simultaneously insisting that he was.

324 posted on 05/11/2009 3:41:43 PM PDT by Mojave (Don't blame me. I voted for McClintock.)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier
When you use the word tariff rather than fee, that means it applies to all ports not just yours. It appears that the words being placed in your mouth are from your own inaccurate statements.

I said "tariff OR container fees" (emphasis added) as a examples of alternative methods for funding such infrastructure improvements. There are numerous other methods of funding that might be applied-- I did not state a preference for anything other than eliminating the inherent subsidy that we have today. Excerpt of my original post:

...the taxpayers that get to pick up the tab for port improvements, road maintenance, environmental effects, etc. Heaven forbid that some of that might be relieved by one of those awful tariffs or container fees!

You have now clarified that you don’t care how it’s paid for; thus we can have free trade with zero tariffs, and as long as the fees charged by your local port covers the costs of importing you’re happy with that. Correct?

NO. I already said that while that is mostly true, I would not make such a broad brush declaration. There may indeed be a time where a tariff would be appropriate.

325 posted on 05/11/2009 3:43:58 PM PDT by calcowgirl (RECALL Abel Maldonado! - NO on Props 1A 1B 1C 1D 1E 1F)
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To: investigateworld
Look, I didn't know what the eff you were talking about when you brought it up the first time, and I still don't know what the eff you are talking about. If someone called you a racist, call them out. Otherwise, quit whining.
326 posted on 05/11/2009 3:44:19 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
I’m curious.

As to why the percentage of goods enjoying trade protections increased during the Reagan administration? I bet you are.

“Of the $387 billion in goods the U.S. imported in 1986, more than 20% was protected by special tariffs, quotas, or other types of restraints, according to Gary C. Hufbauer, a Georgetown University professor. When Reagan took office, the figure was 12%.”

327 posted on 05/11/2009 3:44:35 PM PDT by Mojave (Don't blame me. I voted for McClintock.)
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To: Mojave

One other thing I’m curious about: who controlled Congress when Reagan was in office?


328 posted on 05/11/2009 3:48:31 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
For God's sake, he's spent the better part of a day-and-a-half trying to get Mojave to take a position!

I'm not always for or always against the use of tariffs. I'll leave the knee jerk positions for simpletons such as yourself.

329 posted on 05/11/2009 3:50:13 PM PDT by Mojave (Don't blame me. I voted for McClintock.)
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To: Mojave

Sure you will. Maybe you can name one of my positions on this thread that qualifies as “knee-jerk,” instead of making one up.


330 posted on 05/11/2009 3:51:26 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Mojave
“Of the $387 billion in goods the U.S. imported in 1986, more than 20% was protected by special tariffs, quotas, or other types of restraints, according to Gary C. Hufbauer, a Georgetown University professor.
When Reagan took office, the figure was 12%.”

Reagan... wasn't he the guy that wrote NAFTA? ;-)

331 posted on 05/11/2009 3:52:13 PM PDT by calcowgirl (RECALL Abel Maldonado! - NO on Props 1A 1B 1C 1D 1E 1F)
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To: calcowgirl

Sure as hell wasn’t Congress. What’s your point?


332 posted on 05/11/2009 3:53:21 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

Touchy, touchy!


333 posted on 05/11/2009 3:56:49 PM PDT by calcowgirl (RECALL Abel Maldonado! - NO on Props 1A 1B 1C 1D 1E 1F)
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To: calcowgirl

I get that way around libs.


334 posted on 05/11/2009 3:57:35 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: calcowgirl

And seriously, no one on this thread is arguing that Reagan “wrote” NAFTA. It’s your, ahem, expansive use of language that is lib-like.


335 posted on 05/11/2009 3:59:52 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
One other thing I’m curious about: who controlled Congress when Reagan was in office?

The Reagan administration called for the protective tariffs on Japanese automotive exports. And for a 100% tariff on Brazilian electronics. And for quotas on imported sugar. And for reductions in foreign steel imports. And for duties on imported Japanese motorcycles. And for increased tariffs on Canadian lumber.

But his administration did NOT write NAFTA.

336 posted on 05/11/2009 4:00:23 PM PDT by Mojave (Don't blame me. I voted for McClintock.)
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To: 1rudeboy

Are you suggesting I’m a liberal?


337 posted on 05/11/2009 4:01:29 PM PDT by calcowgirl (RECALL Abel Maldonado! - NO on Props 1A 1B 1C 1D 1E 1F)
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To: Mojave

That’s correct! NAFTA just appeared from outer space!


338 posted on 05/11/2009 4:01:35 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy; calcowgirl
1. In all of the voluminous bodies of work regarding Ronald Reagan, I have yet to come across anything that suggests he regretted the creation of a free trade zone between Canada, Mexico, and the United States.

2. And seriously, no one on this thread is arguing that Reagan “wrote” NAFTA.

339 posted on 05/11/2009 4:03:41 PM PDT by Mojave (Don't blame me. I voted for McClintock.)
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To: 1rudeboy
NAFTA just appeared from outer space!

Nope. It was negotiated by the Bush and Clinton administrations. That gave algore to chance to make sure it was "the greenest trade agreement ever written."

340 posted on 05/11/2009 4:06:22 PM PDT by Mojave (Don't blame me. I voted for McClintock.)
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