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Thread 1: LITHUANIA YIELDS MEMEL TO HITLER (3/22/39)
Microfiche-New York Times archives, McHenry Library, U.C. Santa Cruz
| 3/22/39
Posted on 03/22/2009 8:34:03 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson




TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: lithuania; realtime
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To: fredhead; r9etb; PzLdr; dfwgator; Paisan; From many - one.; rockinqsranch; GRRRRR; 2banana; ...
2
posted on
03/22/2009 8:34:54 AM PDT
by
Homer_J_Simpson
("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
To: Homer_J_Simpson
Too bad Obama hasn’t learned anything from history. And haven’t we learned either. Yielding to Statists is never good for anyone in the long run.
3
posted on
03/22/2009 8:44:02 AM PDT
by
jdfromny
(At what point are we officially "North Americans"?)
To: Homer_J_Simpson
To: Homer_J_Simpson
Thanks for posting these. This is real history!
5
posted on
03/22/2009 9:28:25 AM PDT
by
aynrandfreak
(Being a Democrat means never having to say you're sorry)
To: Homer_J_Simpson
Btw, would it be fair to say that this was Hitler’s last bloodless victory? Next comes Poland, which he won easily, but not just by bluff.
6
posted on
03/23/2009 7:01:49 PM PDT
by
BroJoeK
(a little historical perspective...)
To: BroJoeK
Btw, would it be fair to say that this was Hitlers last bloodless victory? Next comes Poland, which he won easily, but not just by bluff.I would say so. Didn't Danzig become the next target? That was not to be taken by threat of force alone.
7
posted on
03/23/2009 8:11:04 PM PDT
by
Homer_J_Simpson
("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
To: Homer_J_Simpson
The possibilities of weaning Italy from the Axis, which had loomed so large in British official calculations, were . . . vanishing. On
March 26 Mussolini made a violent speech asserting Italian claims against France in the Mediterranean. Secretly he was planning for the extension of Italian influence in the Balkans and the Adriatic, to balance the German advance in Central Europe. His plans for invading Albania were now ready.
Winston S. Churchill, The Gathering Storm
8
posted on
03/26/2009 5:41:58 AM PDT
by
Homer_J_Simpson
("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
To: fredhead; r9etb; PzLdr; dfwgator; Paisan; From many - one.; rockinqsranch; GRRRRR; 2banana; ...
9
posted on
03/26/2009 5:43:14 AM PDT
by
Homer_J_Simpson
("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
To: Homer_J_Simpson
quoting Churchill:
"The possibilities of weaning Italy from the Axis, which had loomed so large in British official calculations, were . . . vanishing. On March 26 Mussolini made a violent speech asserting Italian claims against France in the Mediterranean. Secretly he was planning for the extension of Italian influence in the Balkans and the Adriatic, to balance the German advance in Central Europe. His plans for invading Albania were now ready." Our "paleo-cons," like Pat Buchanan, claim that WWII might have been prevented had the Brits just held onto their old WWI alliances with Italy and Japan. Instead, largely under American influences, Britain let go of both those alliances, which Hitler was only too happy to step into.
The problem with Buchanan's argument is that Mussolini's price for keeping his alliance with Britain was well known, and was unacceptable. The Brits must agree to let Mussolini begin work on reconstructing the old Roman Empire! Obvious to the Brits at least: that just could not happen.
For one thing, if you first agree to let Mussolini have, say, Ethiopia, then how can you "just say no" when he next wants Albania? Further, if you let Mussolini run-amuck in the Mediterranean, then how do you tell Hitler he can't do the same in Eastern Europe?
Buchanan's point is that more clever diplomacy could have prevented the World War. Well duh! But it wasn't their lack of cleverness which deceived Hitler into believing Germany could defeat the rest of the world combined -- rather it was the West's obvious unwillingness to use military force, even when a small force could have made a big difference.
10
posted on
03/26/2009 6:53:15 AM PDT
by
BroJoeK
(a little historical perspective...)
To: Homer_J_Simpson
His [Mussolini] plans for invading Albania were now ready.April 7, 1939 he invades. King Zog flees for England.
To: Homer_J_Simpson
3/27/39 UpdateAt a Foreign Policy Committee meeting of the British Cabinet, the Ministers decide to side with Poland, rather than try for a multi-nation agreement involving the Soviet Union.
http://www.worldwar-2.net/prelude-to-war/prelude-to-war-index.htm
12
posted on
03/27/2009 8:22:38 AM PDT
by
Homer_J_Simpson
("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
To: fredhead; r9etb; PzLdr; dfwgator; Paisan; From many - one.; rockinqsranch; GRRRRR; 2banana; ...
13
posted on
03/27/2009 8:24:43 AM PDT
by
Homer_J_Simpson
("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
To: Homer_J_Simpson
“If, contrary to expectations, Britain and France raise objections, Lithuania will immediately ask them whether they are willing to defend her and Memel against attack. The answer to such a question is regarded as so obvious that it is not even expected to arise.”
One wonders how different things might have turned out if Britain and France had stood up at this point. But WWI was still a fresh memory for them and no one wanted to go to war.
14
posted on
03/27/2009 8:41:07 AM PDT
by
PeterPrinciple
( Seeking the truth here folks.)
To: Homer_J_Simpson
"At a Foreign Policy Committee meeting of the British Cabinet, the Ministers decide to side with Poland, rather than try for a multi-nation agreement involving the Soviet Union." There are a number of reasons for this:
- Poland, seeing the fate of Czechoslovakia (and possibly suspecting what Hitler had in store for them) did not want to give into Hitler.
- Poland, seeing the fate of other countries under Stalin's boot (i.e., Ukraine) would not accept Soviet help against Germany. Poles also remembered defeating the Soviets in 1921.
- The Brits by now understood that trying to appease Hitler was futile, but they did not yet begin to fully understand what it would take to stop him.
We note: that at this point Buchanan says, the Brits should have urged Poland to do like Czechoslovakia. His basic argument is that when all was said and done, Poland lost nearly six million dead fighting the Nazis, while Czechoslovakia lost 95% fewer by cooperating.
In 1939 Poland was three times larger than Czechoslovakia. Today, even with new borders it's four times larger than the Czech Republic.
I think the Poles' fate was sealed, especially the Jews, regardless of how much they might have tried to cooperate with Hitler.
15
posted on
03/27/2009 10:12:18 AM PDT
by
BroJoeK
(a little historical perspective...)
To: BroJoeK
I think the Poles' fate was sealed, especially the Jews, regardless of how much they might have tried to cooperate with Hitler.I agree. Hitler had them hemmed in on three sides. Poland represented a contiguous part of Germany's Lebensraum. Diplomatic developments between Ribbentrop and Molotov notwithstanding, Hitler wanted a jumping-off point nearer to Moscow than the current German border. Polish goose cooked.
16
posted on
03/27/2009 10:42:33 AM PDT
by
Homer_J_Simpson
("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
To: Homer_J_Simpson
"von der Maas bis an die Memel, vor der Etsch bis and den Belt, Deutschland, Deutschland ueber alles... (NSDAP lyrics)
17
posted on
03/31/2009 8:25:31 AM PDT
by
QBFimi
(When gunpowder speaks, beasts listen.)
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