Posted on 03/03/2009 5:21:17 AM PST by GeorgiaDawg32
I think we can all agree (perhaps not) the GOP has a long way to go to simply get to mediocre as far as conservative principles are concerned. RINO's abound and the GOP has become nothing more than "Democrat Light".
WHAT IF Rush does in fact start a conservative 3rd party, and his 20 million listeners immediately leave the GOP and join this new outfit. Let's also assume this happens in the next couple of weeks..
What are the implications for the '10 races?
What are the implications for the '12 race for President?
Wouldn't this simply split the GOP and hand '10 and '12 back to the democrats? (small "d", it's intentional) due to a split vote??
Would the new conservative party become large enough in the next 2 years to displace the GOP or at least have a major impact on the upcoming elections?
Who would lead? IOW, who are the current Republicans that we'd like to take with us, and who are the RINO's we'd leave on the bench with a pleasant, "Thanks but no thanks, we don't want you"?
The chances of this actually happening are somewhere between slim and none, IMO, and I believe I just saw slim climb on his horse and head out of town, but the time is coming, eventually, for a new conservative party. It's not a question of "if", but "when"..
Count me in. Sadly though, if any real conservative 3rd party candidate emerged who stood a real chance of being elected would find themselves Arkancided real quick. Too much money and power is behind the LibRats and RePukes to ever allow an outsider to take over.
I think a lot of the problem with people like Boehner, etc. is not that they themselves are hard-core RINOs, but that they are weak-willed. They get up there and they "go Washington", they "Drink the Potomac Tea", so to speak. They need to be reminded of where their breadis buttered, electorally.
Problem is, when conservatives whine and threaten a third party and whatnot, this doesn't send the message we think it's sending. Instead of "hey, maybe we'd better shape up", the message is "these kooks are going to split us, so we'd better shift left to grab votes to compensate."
We need ONE conservative party in this country, not two or three. If we operated under a parliamentary system, it'd be different, and I'd probably already have started my own Neo-Ciceronian Party. Nevertheless, we operate under a winner take all electoral system, and splitting the conservative vote does nothing but elect Democrats. Under our system, the obvious answer to any thinking person is not to split up into a host of personality-driven ego-trip third parties, but to forcefully take over the Republican Party from the grassroots level, one county at a time. It can be done in two years, if we'd actually get energetic and organised enough to do it.
But that's the problem - for all their tough talk about their principles and whatnot, I think a lot of conservatives out there - including a lot of FReepers - are simply too lazy and self-interested to do what it takes to retake the GOP for conservatism (which, then, brings up the interesting question of why we'd trust them to put together a credible, viable third party). Conservatives like to gripe about the RINOs, but they don't like to actually do anything about them. They want to threaten to split off and create a third party, but they can't pull themselves away from the TV long enough to even get involved in their local GOP apparatus to start making a difference for conservatism. And have you tried organising conservatives? It's like trying to herd cats - except the cats are more cooperative. Until conservatives get off their individual ego trips and start working together, they'd be ineffective regardless of which route they take.
Oh, and by the way, all the talk about 1856 is nonsense, since there is no issue today like slavery to create the stark divisions such as were seen then. Also, people seem to forget that the Whig Party had already collapsed as a force in American politics by 1852 - the Republicans didn't so much arise as a split off of the Whigs as they arose as a re-animation of its corpse, infused with a better moral compass on the slavery issue. No such comparable situation exists today.
You cannot be serious on this. If the Green Party was viable then it would do it on its own. You could change your sentence to Socialist, Farmer-Labor, Prohibition, American, Socialist Labor, or Single-Tax. (These were the recognized third party associations in 1924.)
Another analogy would be Eisenhower funding the Romanians in WWII in order to beat the Germans.
The primary premise in this tread is a new party, not modifying any existing party.
>> It is time our GOP leaders got balls.
If they had principles and could articulate them, the balls would drop on their own.
I don’t even know what the Republican party *stands for* anymore (besides real estate development).
“Vote for us because we have a different letter by our name” is not a winning strategy.
Question: if this is essentially the same plan I've outlined above for conservatives to retake the GOP in two years (the local aspect, especially), then why even bother with the third party? It's an unneeded superfluity.
So you want to make that permanent. Brilliant.
We need to face a certain reality. What is to stop Democrat rule for foreseeable future? The majority no longer listens to ideas or seeks leaders of sound accomplishments or integrity. They want flash and “cool” and “hip”. That is not what conservatism is about. If we try to make conservatism cool and hip, then it will morph into liberalism and be no different. We have a long way to go to reclaim the culture back into something sane. For now, a new dark age is approaching. Everyone hates doom and gloom, but I talk to “everyday” people and listen to them. They are completely in Obama’s camp and will not listen to reason. The man’s skin color and pretty rhetoric mean more than any end results. What do we have to offer to counter that?
Does anyone know if Rush has mentioned the “tea parties”? Remember when he promoted Dan’s Bake Sale?
Exactly. I can't think of anything more detrimental to the future of conservatism than splitting off and forming a third party. Those advocating it are the ENEMIES of conservatism, as far as I'm concerned. They'd do more damage to the country than the RINOs.
Why does it never occur to people that if conservatives are going to get organised, why not do it within the Party apparatus where most conservatives already at least nominally exist? The answer is not some ego trip third party by Rush or by Chuck Baldwin or Howard Phillips or whoever. The answer is to do the hard work of reconquering the GOP for conservatism. It can be done, if conservatives would just be willing to get their hands dirty.
But that's the problem - most conservatives, even a lot of these hard-shell FReepers - are simply too lazy to even try to get the job done.
Here is a great letter posted on Steele’s blog titled, YOU BLEW IT MR STEELE. I tried to post but the page is cut & paste proof. The letter is written by a former Marine Kennie Harris.
http://steeleforchairman.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=296&catid=43&Itemid=127
Republicans have failed.
Republicans are cowering to the media and temporary popularity of a Socialist President.
If Rush starts a new Conservative Party...
I AM IN LIKE FLINT.
Note that Rush is probably the only charismatic person out there that could pull it off. It would do one of two thigs.
1. Suceed.
2. Influence the GOP to get back to core principles.
Can’t say I disagree with you, but people are fickle and will turn on obama if things get tough enough. It’s even possible that they will look back at Bush and say to themselves: you know it wasn’t really that bad!
YOU BLEW IT, MR. STEELE!
Written by Kennie Harris
Tuesday, 03 March 2009 00:00
My wife and I had high hopes for you, because we liked what you said at the convention last year and throughout the election cycle. Then when you were running for chairman of the RNC you began pandering to moderates and minorities by criticising your own party. That began the disenchantment.
Now let’s move along to the current controversy. That you allowed yourself to be interviewed by race pimps such as Hughley and Chuck D, who are ENTERTAINERS and partisans and not journalists, shows that you are trying to appeal to people outside the usual Republican audience, and that’s great. BUT when the partisan interviewers call members of your own party Nazis and you yourself call a partisan ENTERTAINER on our side ugly and incendiary you have just announced your demise as chairman of the RNC.
The grassroots have been so trampled by McCain and Graham and other moderates over the last few years that we are not going to tolerate this any longer. We want our message to be clear and unequivocal. We want those who claim to be leaders to uphold our principles and promote them. We DO NOT WANT COMPROMISE!!! We want you to hold the line against socialism, racism, higher taxes, runaway spending, federal government power grabs and the like, and we don’t care if liberals, democrats, socialists and race pimps don’t like us for it. They will never like us. Get over it.
So many people I know would have never voted for a democrat, but did so this time around because they are sick of settling for the lesser of 2 evils and wanted to send you a message. Some people I know did not vote at all because they are sick of both parties. Some conservatives have decided it’s time to rally, not to hide. They want to come back strong and run on principle. You may have just killed their will to fight on. You and Lindsey Graham and John McCain and Arlen Specter and your ilk have the blood of the GOP, the conservative movement and quite possibly the Constitution itself on your hands because you have been unworthy defenders of them. The entire nation, Republicans and Democrats, liberals and conservatives and people of all races and politics all around the world will suffer if we allow liberty and freedom to be trampled out and replaced with marxism and socialism.
When someone says your party is full of Nazis and racists, rednecks and the evil rich, the proper response is NOT TO AGREE WITH THEM!
Like we used to say in the Marine Corps, Lead, Follow or GET OUT OF THE WAY!
I'd be very interested to see how you plan to accomplish that.
Sounds like Ross Perot. Gave us Clinton. No thanks.
What was Perot’s party called? I don’t even remember.
In the funny way politics works: Perot gave us Clinton gave us Bush gave us Obama. The chain is longer than one election.
I’m an ideology man, not a party man. I firmly believe that conservatism works wherever it’s honestly tried. I believe that eventually the truth will win. What is DEATH to me isn’t losing an election, but watering down the truth to the point where we’re electing “Republicans” that behave just exactly like Democrats.
This is certainly happening in my local politics! These putative “republicans” around here never saw a dollar of taxpayer money they didn’t covet, nor a “project” that didn’t belong under their control. Fitness club? Let the City build it! That’s why they spend over FIFTY PERCENT of revenue on debt service. As shameless as any subprime borrower. They call themselves republicans, but they are tax and spend (and controlfreak) Dimocraps at the core.
By the way, in an earlier post you complained of conservatives, including Freepers, that bitch but don’t act. You’re dead on. Mea culpa. Most of us have day jobs, but frankly that’s an excuse more than a reason. Wonder what will happen when more conservatives are unemployed...
EXCELLENT LETTER. I hope Mr. Steele pays attention.
Dude... Did you just compare Rush to Perot? Slap yourself... I think you are still asleep.
How many vote for republicans simply because they aren't democrats? How many democrats vote for the dims simply because they could never vote for a republican. How many independents and somewhat conservatives of all political stripes abstain altogether when someone like McCain is the candidate?
We are guided by principle and, as Rush has often said, most of us live our lives as conservatives, whether we recognize it, admit it or not. Conservatism is the principle that best expresses the natural laws and rhythms of our world. Hardships come to those who live in conflict with those natural laws.
When someone like Reagan appears, someone who articulates our life principles, the ones our Constitution is based upon, people are willing to cross party lines, which tells me that principle is much stronger than party...especially when party no longer epitomizes principle.
Yes, it is time for either a new party or a complete overhaul of the GOP.
I'm the same way - my loyalties lie with conservatism. In fact, if this thread has been posted a year ago, I would probably be one of those on here screaming for a third party and castigating all Republicans at every turn (I didn't actually re-register with the Party, after a several year absence, until Jan. 9 of this year). But I came to a realisation - simply moaning and complaining won't do anything. Organisation is needed, and that organisation is already in existence with the GOP. All we as conservatives need to do is take the GOP back, and it can be done! This is why I'm running for the chairmanship of my precinct in my county, alongside a slate of hand-picked conservative candidates for the other precinct chairs and the executive committee. The plan to retake the party for conservatives, in my county at least, is already in action, and will likely be successful since we're working hard on turnout, and the responses I've been getting in face-to-face door knocking have been very positive. That's what your rank-and-file registered Republicans WANT (even in my liberal county). They WANT conservative REPUBLICANS. Most of them DON'T want conservative third parties splitting and diluting us. A third party will do nothing but fail, and drag us all down with it.
And I think a salient point that needs to be made in the face of all this "Republicans is jes a buncha RINOs" stuff is this: The GOP is hardly altogether lost for conservatism. Remember, Rush himself is a registered Republican. And for all the talk that we hear castigating RINOs like Collins, Snowe, and Specter (and I would add MURKOWSKI to that list), why do we never hear any kudos for Senators like Bunning, Barrasso, Enzi, Wicker, Bennett, Inhofe, DeMint, Ensign, Shelby, Thune, Risch, Roberts, Vitter, Coburn, Crapo, Brownback, and the rest who have all stood solid for conservative principles? Why does everyone complain about weaklings like Boehner, but never given cred to the large majority of House Republicans who stand solidly on conservative principles, every vote? Mike Steele was elected to the Chairmanship because he was sold as a conservative - indicating that conservative leadership was what the majority, in some way or another, were wanting.
Why do we only hear the negative, but never the positive?
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