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To: ShadowAce

I started in DOS at age 11, and now nearly 20 years later with a professional career in software development I can honestly say that I am completely unimpressed with the mass of Linux derivatives and their clunky and/or non-existent UI and completely ambiguous error messages.

If Linux developers want people to use their creations they need to understand how a typical computer user operates. If they don’t want Linux to operate like Windows that’s fine, but they do need to make it a non-hemorrhoid-inducing activity to get something as simple as a notepad installed; much less, something as complex as WINE.


3 posted on 01/07/2009 6:09:09 AM PST by TheZMan (Troll since 2004, apparently.)
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To: TheZMan
...I am completely unimpressed with the mass of Linux derivatives and their clunky and/or non-existent UI and completely ambiguous error messages.

Linux apps don't exactly hold a monopoly on ambiguous error messages. Enjoy this screen capture of an error I received from ClearCase:


6 posted on 01/07/2009 6:25:53 AM PST by whd23
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To: TheZMan

I am in complete agreement with you on this. As such, I will warn you that you will be flamed for your heretical statements.


8 posted on 01/07/2009 6:29:39 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (Ronald Reagan had a vision of America. Barack Obama has a vision of Barack Obama.)
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To: TheZMan
...I am completely unimpressed with the mass of Linux derivatives and their clunky and/or non-existent UI...

??? When did you last check out GNOME or KDE?

...they do need to make it a non-hemorrhoid-inducing activity to get something as simple as a notepad installed; much less, something as complex as WINE.

uh, stuff like notepad comes pre-installed, just like windows. As far as installing complex applications, a simple command like "yum install " or "apt-get install " searches the web for the the program, downloads it and all needs prerequisites, and performs all the necessary installation without any further input from the user.

It must've been quite some time ago that you last looked at Linux.

9 posted on 01/07/2009 6:30:51 AM PST by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: TheZMan

I see the solution to a lot of the Linux problem in doing two things. First of all, put the OS on a chip, including WINE.

Then create an applications organizational structure based on desired applications and computer resources, that orders, downloads, and installs applications for maximum efficiency. This would be done online for the user.

The end result would be something like an ancient batch file, but a drive image as well. Modified with each software addition or deletion to have the best possible system.


12 posted on 01/07/2009 6:40:19 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: TheZMan
Yes, I agree.

I believe that the Linux community must come to terms with the fact that their products must address the issues you point out.

Sadly, the approach of stating, or at least implying strongly, that the average “windoze” users aren't as smart as Linux users remains prevalent.

I hope that the Linux community can find their way past this problem eventually. Watching the evolution of Linux over the years, I think that some of the developers are beginning to “get it”, but it will still take a while.

I enjoy driving a stick-shift vehicle. It's fun to manually control the acceleration, deceleration, torque curve, etc., but my wife (who has, and can drive one) is only interested in owning an automatic. Why? Because she sees the vehicle as simply a means to an end (i.e., getting from here to there without giving any thought to the vehicle).

I could spend a lot of time repeating how much more control over the vehicle she could have, how much more enjoyable it would be, etc. But that would only be received by her as smug and irritating, and it certainly wouldn't change her mind.

I think that Linux devotees continuing to “talk down” to users of windows (or other GUI-faced programs), will only come across as smug and condescending.

I don't think “command line” inputs are ever going to overcome GUI clicking for the average PC user.

15 posted on 01/07/2009 6:42:13 AM PST by Col Freeper (FR is a smorgasbord of Conservative thoughts and ideas - dig in and enjoy it to its fullest!)
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To: TheZMan
I agree with your assessment.

It seems that Linux is more for hobbyists than for practical computing.

There are too many flavors and no real direction.

I have played around with a few of the LiveCD versions. Most of them have failed to recognize all of my PC peripherals.

I have considered buying a cheap PC just to play around with Linux, but so far, I don't see much advantage to that.

[I started with DOS/MSDOS in the early 80s. I went kicking-and-screaming into Windows in the early 90s because that was the direction business environments were going.]

16 posted on 01/07/2009 6:44:26 AM PST by TomGuy
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To: TheZMan

Take a look at Ubuntu 8.04LTS. I’m trying it out as a Windows replacement and its pretty slick. It runs perfectly on my Dell laptop and I have yet to need the command line.

Linux junkies berate Ubuntu as a “beginners” or dumbed-down distro, but that’s because one can do most everything using the GUI instead of command-line. I consider that a plus.


17 posted on 01/07/2009 6:45:51 AM PST by jrp
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To: TheZMan
I'm in IT Tech Support and was given an old IBM Net-vista, after putzing around with it I got if up and running after zapping the HD, but was unable to install Windows due to licensing issues... So I thought “what the heck” so I loaded UBUNTU 8.4 and then OPEN OFFICE... Now I haven't poked around on a whole bunch but I like having a completely open source machine free of MS
23 posted on 01/07/2009 7:06:19 AM PST by Robe (Rome did not create a great empire by talking, they did it by killing all those who opposed them)
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To: TheZMan
I really wanted to replace my Windows machine with Linux last year but eventually concluded that it wasn't yet ready for general home client use, nor was that likely to be the case anytime soon. Linux makes for a fine server and technical office desktop but it's not for the vast majority of home users.

This should come as no surprise. There's no profit motive to compete in this space and both Microsoft and Apple spend billions on it so expecting "free" software to compete in this area is more than a bit optimistic. Linux in the home is best used in embedded devices where the "UI" is completely hidden anyway. Chances are your router, settop box, etc. are already running a Linux version of some sort today.

28 posted on 01/07/2009 8:01:27 AM PST by AustinBill (consequence is what makes our choices real)
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To: TheZMan

When is the last time you used Linux and what distro was it?


32 posted on 01/07/2009 8:13:12 AM PST by N3WBI3 (Ah, arrogance and stupidity all in the same package. How efficient of you. -- Londo Mollari)
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To: TheZMan
When was the last time you took a look? I use KDE, but both it and Gnome have made great strides. I run openSUSE 11.1, both KDE3.x and KDE 4.1 are included and both can be installed and you can switch between them at login. And the Compiz window effects match or exceed anything Vista Aero can do.

These days, you can do anything you like in Linux without touching the CLI. But as someone who started out on DOS, I'm sure you can appreciate the efficiencies of using it, and fully programmable shell scripting.

BTW: I started with DOS too, 1.0 when it was new.

34 posted on 01/07/2009 8:22:20 AM PST by AFreeBird
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To: TheZMan


'Nuff said? LOL
57 posted on 01/08/2009 10:07:37 PM PST by papasmurf (Impeach the illegal bastard!)
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