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To: count-your-change
The words of verse 40 carry the sense of binding the body up with the spices not just draping a cloth over the body.

Binding does not necessarily mean tying it or even tightly wrapping it. You state that "John's account of Jesus death and burial is quite detailed yet the words he uses (and as translators have chosen to translate) carry the sense of simply wrapping Jesus’ body in a large cloth with the spices." when all of the Gospel accounts are actually very cursory. They cover the burial in just a few sentences. There is no mention of the tahara, the ritual cleaning a normal burial would require.

"39 He was accompanied by Nicodemus, the man who earlier had visited Jesus at night. Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds.[d] 40Taking Jesus' body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen. This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs." John 19:39-40, NIV.
Jewish burial practices have not changed essentially in 3500 years. The body is usually buried with a simple shroud, not elaborate bindings. The practical use of strips around the extremities to keep the body from sprawling while lying in the stone niche are probably the source of the "binding" comments. The body is to be touched as little as possible, which would not be the case of trying to wrap it in bindings of any kind. The assumption that the body is wrapped around the body leaves open whether it was wrapped from left to right, right to left, or the body laid down on the cloth and wrapped up and over the head, down to the feet. We know about 1st Century Jewish burial practices and the Gospel accounts and the evidence on the Shroud comports fairly well with a burial that would be accorded a fairly prosperous person if it was done in a hurried fashion and not completed due to severe time constraints.

My understanding from conversations with a friend who is a conservative Jew, is that the constraint about trying to bury all of the blood with the body is more Mosaic Law and tradition than anything found in the Torah, although the concept of "Life being in the Blood" is definitely in the Torah and the prohibition about drinking or eating blood is based on that concept. If you have watched Mel Gibson's movie The Passion of the Christ, you will see some scenes based on this as Mary collects the bloody earth below the Cross.

No images on a shroud or garment are mentioned or hinted at anywhere in the Bible or needed as Jesus himself appears to confirm his resurrection.

This is true... but an inordinate amount of attention is spent on the grave cloths in the Gospel's descriptions of the empty tomb. Something was important enough about them to cause the mentions... especially the positioning. It is possible, if the Shroud is genuinely related the Jesus' death, that the images developed over time, and were not instantaneous appearances.

43 posted on 12/15/2008 10:28:09 AM PST by Swordmaker (Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!)
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To: Swordmaker

Matt. 27:59 says Jesus body was “wrapped”,Greek-entulisso,
Mark 15:46 says Jesus body was “wrapped”, Greek-eneileo,
John says Jesus body was “wound”, Greek-deo,
Each of the Greek words carries a meaning of winding or wrapping the linen cloth around the body of Jesus (whether left or right is unimportant and unstated).
They are not draping him with a shroud, they are wrapping in just the sense we understand the word, as John said “wound”.
Were the hand and feet tied? Most likely as the description of Lazarus resurrection indicates but that is not what is being described as being done in the above verses.

Only John gives any details at all with Luke only mentioning Peter picking up some of the cloths.

Yes, I saw Gibson’s movie but I would hardly go to Hollywood for Biblical instruction, Mel just made that scene up about the blood.

“My understanding from conversations with a friend who is a conservative Jew, is that the constraint about trying to bury all of the blood with the body is more Mosaic Law and tradition than anything found in the Torah, although the concept of “Life being in the Blood” is definitely in the Torah and the prohibition about drinking or eating blood is based on that concept.”

What part of the Mosaic Law did he say this burying of all the blood with the deceased is based upon? Tradition perhaps, Mosaic Law? where?

“It is possible, if the Shroud is genuinely related the Jesus’ death, that the images developed over time, and were not instantaneous appearances.”

Now you’re really stretching! Do you think Jesus’ disciples were collecting relics? And from a tomb?

John says the Roman soldiers took Jesus’ garments and Joseph took the body and wrapped in a piece of cloth with spices. No shrouds with Kodak-like images appearing.


48 posted on 12/15/2008 12:50:22 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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