And so..., no matter what one thinks about bailing out these auto giants, they've got so "down-the-line" connections and business deals and suppliers and so on, that it *definitely* would be even more devastating for the U.S. economy.
I know I've seen posted here, many saying to let them go bankrupt and out of business -- but -- be sure..., if that is allowed and they don't keep going as a "on-going business" -- it will wreak havoc on the U.S. and many, otherwise, good people who depend on the spillover effects from the business done by these giants.
This is even more evidence (a "cascade" and "avalanche" of evidence) that we are slumping, every more surely, into the Great Depression. It will take hold in 2009 and be probably as big and even worse than the last big one we had. Only this time, there is a safety net underneath some of the poorest in this country -- which -- will be paid for by those who "continue" working... (such irony..., indeed, for those who are left still working...)...
This was posted in the wrong area before (what the Admin Moderator said), so it’s posted in a different area. It’s not supposed to be “News/Activism”...
The last post was at — http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2148634/posts
Okay, it’s here to comment on now, again... :-)
What if they do not turn a profit? They should not be supported forever.
What led me to this article was the following one —
GM, Chrysler Bankruptcies Would Cause Turmoil for U.S. Economy
http://preview.tinyurl.com/5majcb
The best thing about the auto industry crisis and the coming recession (or maybe depression) is that it will give us the opportunity to destroy the UAW and all American unions. Once the unions are gone, America can become competitive again.
Of course there would be great turmoil if these companies collapsed. But the main reason congress is going to try to save these companies (notice I said “try”) is that they don’t want a couple million Americans, most of whom own guns, wandering around and reading about the billions given away to save financial companies who in turn pay their incompetent managers million dollar bonuses.
Be that as it may IMHO unless the union gives serious concessions all the loan money in the world will be entirely wasted.
Add to this mix the attempt by an Obama Administration to shift the USA to a totalitarian socialist system and the chances for serious repercussions approach 1.
I'm no fan of the American car companies, but my husband's business is indirectly dependent on them, as are many others.
Kind of a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation.
The UAW however, needs to go completely out of business.
What a line of BS. 1. Bankruptcy won’t cause them to cease operations, it will allow them to get out from under debt and absurd union contracts.
2. What good does it do to prop up GM and Chrysler, if their cars just continue to pile up as unsold inventory. Unless the government wants to start buying GM cars, then throwing money at GM without first making them competitive will accomplish nothing except taking more money out of the pocket of the Americans that actually produce something.
3. If GM, Chrysler & Ford do stop making cars, the American people will still need the same number of cars next year, they will simply get them from Toyota, Honda, Hundyi, VW, BMW etc. All the transplants have excess capacity and can hire more workers and produce more cars. Those companies supplying GM can compete for the business of the profitable car companies.
4. Sell your Socialism somewhere else, we’re already well stocked up, and remember. Socialism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent. If the government throws a hundred billion at Detroit, in five years we will be in the exact same place with 100 billion of additional debt we can’t pay.
_____________________________________________
Please provide specifics about this "avalanche" of evidence.
That is arguable at worst.
No doubt there is a snowball effect with suppliers, etc., but the untimate question is this:
As we have seen with Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, once you establish a free lunch, it can only get worse.
I'll give you graver economic risks... an endless string of additional "bailouts" as far into the future as the imagination can see.
So I'll ask you what's worse? The anticipated consequences now or when ten times the amount is as stake?
Twenty times?
A hundred times?
All to save the UAW and Democratic votes?
Save the rats, lose a country.
Yeah, that works.
According to you clowns, the economy has been in free fall for the past eight years. Are we supposed to believe you now?
Okay, let’s say we give GM and Chrysler $15 billion. They take that money and do...what exactly? What are they going to do with the money? Suddenly build more desirable cars? No, it takes about five years for a new car to get from the drafting room to the show room. And besides, Chevrolet has the fourth best-selling sedan (the Malibu) and still can’t make a profit.
Negotiate more favorable terms with their union? No, they’ve already said they won’t budge because they own the Democratic Party and won’t be held accountable for their part in this mess.
In all honesty, the automakers’ problems can’t be fixed by money. Maybe they can be fixed by lack of money.
A.) You can’t save a terminally ill patient. You can only make them comfortable until the inevitable occurs.
B.) Bankruptcy (chapter 11) doesn’t mean the end, it means a “timeout”, if you will. It allows for complete re-organization of the entity. It offers the opportunity to take a breather, think, plan, and then start anew. All the while the entity keeps functioning under the supervision of a Court appointed guardian or guardianship.
Debts and expenses are paid, according to priority. The priority established is in order of importance to the continued functioning of the entity. So, vendors will get paid. Life doesn’t cease, and the Sun still shines.
C.) The amount of money they are asking for is chump change for them. Many experts (the majority of what I’ve seen and read), and I’m not one-but I do agree with them, have serious doubts that this small amount of money will suffice to cover their recovery. IOW, it’s money tossed into the wind, and will never be paid back.
D.) Furthermore, these same experts, and again-I am convinced that their conclusions are correct, are certain that a Chapter 11 Re-Organization Bankruptcy Protection action is the very best option that would give, GM in particular, even a calculable chance of being solvent and profitable again.
It is now being discussed that perhaps the reason that, again GM in particular, is resisting a Bankruptcy filing so strongly, at this time, is to receive as much “free” money as possible, and then filing for Protection. And that is disgusting and criminal, IMO.
Do we really want to punish the workers? Well, no, but why shouldn’t they receive their fortunes, good or bad, as we all do? Are we now to be expected to save everyone’s jobs, or are the auto workers now, somehow, the “holy grail” of the American workforce?
If autoworkers lose their jobs, they have the same mechanisms available to them as do non autoworkers that have lost theirs and, in fact, they have better and they have more financial resources available to them, than do the majority of the American working population.
So, they now want us to save them in order to save ourselves? I think not.
We must all remember, for every door that closes, another opens. It’s been my lifelong experience that the door that opens, is the door of a new opportunity.