Save automakers for our sake, not theirs

If government were run on the business principles of profit and loss, the decision on a bailout for the Big Three automakers would be obvious: Absolutely not. Companies that make poor investments and unpopular products end up in bankruptcy court —- without salvation from the taxpayers.

But the decisions of government are not simple balance-sheet calculations. Political leaders must take into account additional considerations, including this one: What’s in the best interest of the country? Aiding Detroit, as Congress is now considering with $15 billion in bridge loans, is the right move because failure to do so poses even graver economic risks.

If this scenario were occurring a few years ago, with a healthy economy and low unemployment, the failure of General Motors, Chrysler and even Ford would still jolt the nation’s economy. But the free market would do its work to limit the damage. And business executives who made bad decisions would squarely face the consequences.

But we are not in such a time. The American economy has been in freefall for months. Confidence in American business —- as measured by investment in corporate stocks —- has plummeted, with the Dow down 33.6 percent this year, on track to be the worst yearly loss since 1937. The economy shed 533,000 jobs in November, the biggest one-month drop since 1974, and unemployment is projected to go far higher as the recession deepens.

Now is simply not the time for Congress to watch two, maybe three, companies go under when they directly employ 227,500 workers and indirectly employ thousands more. In the midst of the present turmoil, the U.S. economy needs steadying, not more body blows to the system.

“The best thing about the auto industry crisis and the coming recession (or maybe depression) is that it will give us the opportunity to destroy the UAW and all American unions. Once the unions are gone, America can become competitive again.”

You got that right!

You said — “The UAW however, needs to go completely out of business.”

This is a “mantra” that is invoked, but is something that will never happen. I see the same thing on the Obama birth certificate issue. There’s an overwhelming demand and desire (by many on Free Republic) to get Obama’s birth certificate out. However, given the “state of affairs” of all our leaders (our own) and our media (our own) who don’t support it, it’s not going to happen. They’re not recognizing the “reality” of the situation.

And likewise, here, people are not recognizing the reality of the situation. What happens is that in *more dire economic circumstances* unions will start gaining more people to get on board — *precisely* because many more people will feel the effects that they feel are unwarranted towards them, namely being unemployed for nothing that they did. They will organize even more.

You know what has been more devastating to unions in the past — it was the *success* of the average American worker, who didn’t feel like they had to join a union in order to better themselves.

BUT, with about 25% unemployment (as it was in the last Great Depression) more people will “get on board” for unions in order to improve their own personal circumstances. Face it, people are going to improve their own personal circumstances and that of their own family — regardless of any esoteric political philosophies that people argue about on boards... LOL...

You said — “I’m just very afraid that if the auto industries go down, many other peripheral industries will as well.”

Yeah, and many people don’t realize that the American public is going to “vote” regarding their *own personal circumstances* — and not regarding “esoteric economic philosophies” on an Internet board. In other words, they’re going to go for what helps their own families *right now* in keeping working and keeping a job and keeping their own bills paid.

No one is going to want to “take a hit” (and their family being severely impacted) because of some economic philosophy. That’s not how people vote...

And, with the auto industry such a *major* component of the overall economy of this country, anyone who wants to *sink the auto industry* will end up sinking this country, instead...., unfortunately...

“Bankruptcy won’t cause them to cease operations, it will allow them to get out from under debt and absurd union contracts.”

Exactly. I saw another article posted here in which they reported that 51% of Americans surveyed said they would not buy a car from a company in bankruptcy, and I suspect this is because the majority of Americans don’t understand how Chapter 11 bankruptcy really works.

This is moot because I can’t afford a new car anyway, but I’d be more inclined to buy a vehicle from a Big 3 company undergoing reorganization than I would be if they were taking a government handout.

One more thing..., regarding a comment of yours...

You said — “I don’t know that our country can afford to (or not to) bail out anyone...”

Well..., I see that our country has *bailed out* foreign interests, on behalf of our “foreign policy” and on behalf of “freedom in the world” — with respect to Iraq and Afghanistan.

The way I look at it — is — figure up how much we’ve spent bailing out foreigners and all the money that we’ll spend for *their country* — and, at least, spend that much here, “bailing out” whatever and whomever is going to need it in this coming Great Depression...

We should spend — at least — an *equal amount* for our own companies and our own citizens —as we spend on *foreigners*....

Never happen.
Combining many different and unrelated scenarios isn’t doing anything for your creds either.

The dimwits are married to the unions, and they will take the entire country down trying to maintain this incest. This will be the end of the dems for many, many election cycles.

As for people being unemployed for “nothing they’ve done” sorry, no such situation exists. They choose their field, and do not keep other options for employment open (even being self employed). More new small busineses were created during the great depression (per capita) than at any other time in US history. It will happen again. Look it up.

You said — “Our economic problems are already hitting China.”

That’s one byproduct of our economic crisis and the coming Great Depression that I love to see happen to China. I would like to see all those companies that rake in American money to put into the military (over there) to fight us later on — simply go down the tubes and suck the money right out of their economy, so that they are severely distracted from building up the military again...

What a line of BS.

1. Bankruptcy won’t cause them to cease operations, it will allow them to get out from under debt and absurd union contracts.

2. What good does it do to prop up GM and Chrysler, if their cars just continue to pile up as unsold inventory. Unless the government wants to start buying GM cars, then throwing money at GM without first making them competitive will accomplish nothing except taking more money out of the pocket of the Americans that actually produce something.

3. If GM, Chrysler & Ford do stop making cars, the American people will still need the same number of cars next year, they will simply get them from Toyota, Honda, Hundyi, VW, BMW etc. All the transplants have excess capacity and can hire more workers and produce more cars. Those companies supplying GM can compete for the business of the profitable car companies.

4. Sell your Socialism somewhere else, we’re already well stocked up, and remember. Socialism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent. If the government throws a hundred billion at Detroit, in five years we will be in the exact same place with 100 billion of additional debt we can’t pay.

The few minutes it took you to formulate your response is a few minutes *wasted* that you’ll never get back. The weak-link goo-goo crowd has made up their minds.

(It’ll be fun to watch them slowly twist in the wind, however.)

Silly statement.

1) What is a “foreign” car? A Ford made in Mexico or a Toyota make in Georgia? Even your Detroit Ford has “foreign” parts and equipment.

2) Oil is fungible. You do not domestic or foreign oil, you buy market oil.

You said — “Combining many different and unrelated scenarios isn’t doing anything for your creds either.”

Am I running for office?? LOL..

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In regards to the unions, it’s clear that they don’t benefit as much from “good times” when everyone can easily get good paying jobs. What will “infuse” them with more people working on their behalf — is when people hit the hard times.

I’m fairly confident that people will “look out” for their own personal circumstances and their *own family’s circumstance* before any political or economic philosophy gets in the way. That almost goes without saying.

People are going to do whatever they can to keep their own families going — first and foremost. And that’s what their own families would have. Believe me, when having seen this sort of thing “inside” of families — they don’t “stay together” if the one responsible for the family and it’s good future — takes a philosophical and/or political approach that sinks their *own finances*. That’s a sure way to break up a family in short order (having heard some of that stuff myself, over the course of years from others...).... LOL...

Well if we do not wake up and face the reality that the Islamic world is not changing for the better we might be supported Iraq and Afghanistan forever.

It is financially impossible to continue fighting the war on terror the way we are.

There is no way that I would agree with supporting the auto-industry for 5-7 years if they do not turn a profit. Does anyone know how long this money will last them?

On #1 — keep the money in the country and in the U.S. economy. Don’t ship out profits to overseas entities. In the end, if foreigners gain from it and suck the money out of the business and economy, then it’s no good.

It’s the same thing I see with the cheap goods from China, with the Communist Chinese sucking the money out of our economy (so we can get cheap goods, dontcha know...) and they use it to fund their military who is gearing up to fight us in the next big war we have with them (according to their generals who are getting ready for it...).

On #2 — I see a lot of rich Arabs and other oil-rich Middle East entities getting their money from “somewhere”.... dontcha know... LOL... And I know that money goes to fund terrorist who fight us around the world (plus fighting other “Western” interests, too), and fighting us over here in this country. And they are also using our money in that regard to infiltrate us here and set up mosques and grow more “home-grown terrorists” whom we will be fighting on our own soil in a few years...

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If we didn’t have profits going to foreign entities (whomever they are), we would be a lot better off with our own values in this country. We’ve sold our souls for a mess of pottage...

You said — “Well if we do not wake up and face the reality that the Islamic world is not changing for the better we might be supported Iraq and Afghanistan forever.”

Yeah..., that’s the thing, you see. Since there is some benefit to going into that war with Iraq and Afghanistan — and that’s *questionable* as to whether it’s helping or not (according to what you’re implying up above) — then *certainly* we should spend as much *on ourselves* — for *our benefit*.

Why is it that we can spend billions for others in the world — but — at the same time, we want to *kill our own industries*?? .... LOL

Did we join up with Al Qaida on this one... “kill ourselves” before Al Qaida gets us... :-)

1) Lots of that money stays right here in the U.S. when the line workers and hundreds of connected small businesses/vendors/wage earners get paid/sell products and services.

2) Ridiculous. Unless you want to ban the internal combustion engine, limiting who we buy oil from will simply cause a shift in the market supply until it all evens out again and the exact same amount of money will be going to the “Arabs”.

“Why is it that we can spend billions for others in the world — but — at the same time, we want to *kill our own industries*?? .... LOL”

*FALSE*

No one killed the auto industry who doesn’t manage it or represent it in a Union. *WE* do not *NEED* to support their failure to manufacture what people want to buy and we do not *NEED* to support unreasonable wage and benefit levels.

The single best thing that could happen to Detroit is to go into bankruptcy protection and start over - or be broken up into parts and sold off to companies that can create value in the marketplace.

Creative Destruction *IS* Capitalism.

If the union employees in Detroit weren’t Democrat supporters, no one would even be interested, other than watching the end of an era.

I feel for the hardship to workers, but they don’t *HAVE* to live in Detroit. Roads that go into Detroit also go out of Detroit. No one prevents you from leaving.

Nor did they have to vote union. Nor did they have to suck at the teet of union pay... and no one who reads newspapers didn’t see this coming for more than a decade.

You said — “1) Lots of that money stays right here in the U.S. when the line workers and hundreds of connected small businesses/vendors/wage earners get paid/sell products and services.”

Not for long with a lot wanting to kill the auto industry... LOL... But, there will always be those fast food places to work... We’re converting to a “service industry” doncha know... LOL...

[Send all the rest of the money elsewhere... :-) ... ]

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And then — 2) Ridiculous. Unless you want to ban the internal combustion engine, limiting who we buy oil from will simply cause a shift in the market supply until it all evens out again and the exact same amount of money will be going to the “Arabs”.

Yep, we’ll keep on funding the Communist Chinese, funding the foreign entities, funding the terrorists and soon — we’ll all be “serving tables” with the Arabs and Chinese and foreigners *eating luxuriously* at the tables... I guess you’re going to be doing the dishes... right?

LOL...

I'm no fan of the American car companies, but my husband's business is indirectly dependent on them.....

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Should we send our money straight to you then?

By the way, I took the quiz on your profile page.

1) I came out a FreeMarketer, though I think that is silly as well since after looking the description of each type of conservative I fit them all.

2) Did you notice the one question has a flawed choice? Bring a video camera to the immaculate conception? Do we really want to see an amateur porn video of Mary’s parents in coitus?

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