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The assignment is to describe a true account of patriotism (for any nation) that has gone bad, and discuss the negative effects. But I don't think there is such a thing as a bad example of patriotism. I submit there is a difference; a dividing line between patriotism and nationalism, which obviously can be a bad thing. It's like the difference between love and obsession; one is a positive healthy expression, and the other takes it to an obsessive extreme level that can be twisted into evil. I'm interested in the opinions of others on this. Do you think patriotism is ever a bad thing?
1 posted on 11/13/2008 11:02:58 AM PST by Sisku Hanne
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To: Sisku Hanne
"give a "bad" example of it."

Deutchland uber alles.

46 posted on 11/13/2008 11:37:58 AM PST by Natural Law
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To: Sisku Hanne
It depends entirely on how you define patriotism. See Post#2. But if Patriotism includes working to right your country when it goes wrong, then any negative example would have to be found in the individual's values that determine right vs wrong. If you're moral compass is off, then you could honestly believe that you are working for your country's best interest when in fact you are redistributing her down the craphole of socialism. Any resemblence to the newly elected is not entirely coincidence.
47 posted on 11/13/2008 11:38:12 AM PST by DannyTN
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To: Sisku Hanne

Like any emotion - like any abstraction - patriotism is bad insofar as it can be used to manipulate people to do evil. John Wilkes Booth claimed to be a patriot. In itself it is a laudable enough emotion - love of country, love of one’s mother, love of virtue itself - but ethics involves actions, not feelings. IMHO, of course.


49 posted on 11/13/2008 11:41:16 AM PST by Billthedrill
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To: Sisku Hanne

You have to have a moral center of your own. You won’t be able to sort out what your patriotic duty is without clear moral principles of your own.

If service to your country obliges you to violate your moral principles, you can’t do it.

That doesn’t make you unpatriotic. If you love your country, you’re a patriot. If you’re willing to give your life to defend it, or give your life to set it right when its gone off the rails, you’re a patriot. The trick is knowing which is which.

Its important to remember that service to a given regime is not the same thing as service to country. Again, it takes a clear moral sense to be able to navigate the difference.

So, yes, patriotism rooted in morality is always a good thing. Detached from morality its like anything else detached from morality; it can lead to monstrous consequences.


50 posted on 11/13/2008 11:42:18 AM PST by marron
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To: Sisku Hanne
As with many endeavors, it all depends on the definition of "patriotism". Have the teacher define it first, and then perhaps you will be able to respond to the request.

For example, is patriotism doing whatever the government tells you? Is it loving the land of your birth? Is it loving the principles of your country's government? Is it defending your home country against anyone who would invade?

Depending on your definition, Nazis might have been patriotic and Washington's troops were not.

51 posted on 11/13/2008 11:43:39 AM PST by Defiant (I for one welcome our new Obama Overlords.)
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To: Sisku Hanne
Do you think patriotism is ever a bad thing?

Many Germans were patriotic toward the Nazis. Doesn't that qualify? Or patriotism toward the soviet Union when it was killing millions of citizens.

52 posted on 11/13/2008 11:45:04 AM PST by Onelifetogive (I'm gonna drop talk radio in favor of some audio books. Gotta lower my blood pressure.)
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To: Sisku Hanne

No bad examples, just bad definitions. There is a reason that we have other words like “jingoism”, which is the word leftists mean when they say “patriotism”.


53 posted on 11/13/2008 11:45:07 AM PST by SampleMan (Community Organizer: What liberals do when they run out of college, before they run out of Marxism.)
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To: Sisku Hanne
"I submit there is a difference; a dividing line between patriotism and nationalism"

Maybe that's what your teacher is trying to get at. For instance, there were a lot of people in Germany and Japan during WWII that thought their nationalism was patriotism.

To me, the dividing line is when you trample on other people's legitimate civil liberties in the name of patriotism. For instance, I don't personally like when idiots are out there burning a flag. However, it is a legitmate form of free speech. I don't like when people talk about a constitutional amendment to ban burning of American flags. I think it's political grandstanding.
54 posted on 11/13/2008 11:46:50 AM PST by Old Teufel Hunden (I)
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To: Sisku Hanne

Sure there is. Jingoism, 1930’s germany.


55 posted on 11/13/2008 11:48:05 AM PST by rwh (What great fortune it is for those in power that the people do not think!)
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To: Sisku Hanne

When the definition of the country is changed, patriotism can be an awful thing. A citizen always has to have an ideal or belief that is superior to his country and gives him the moral and ethical knowledge to know whether he should support his country or not.

Hitler changed what it meant to be a German. It is very possible that somebody is going to change what it means to be an American. We don’t have to support the name because of the realities it once represented, if it no longer represents those realities. Or maybe we can claim the name and defend it (since history is on our side), but we’ll have to fight for it. That is, the government is not necessarily the nation.


56 posted on 11/13/2008 11:49:32 AM PST by livius
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To: Sisku Hanne
Websters online definition of patriotism:

Pronunciation: \ˈpā-trē-ə-ˌti-zəm, chiefly British ˈpa-\ Function: noun Date: circa 1726 : love for or devotion to one's country

Given that definition I would say there are plenty of good examples of patriotism being a bad thing. As far as "nationalism", Websters refers to it as "excessive patriotism".

I do not see excessive patriotism as being a bad thing provided the country that you are excessively patriotic about is morally good. In other words, plenty of Germans under Hitler were, according to definition, nationalists but I wouldn't find those better described as Nazi patriots instead of Nazi nationalists any less distasteful.

57 posted on 11/13/2008 11:49:57 AM PST by Live and let live conservative ($)
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To: Sisku Hanne

Talk about Che Guevara.


58 posted on 11/13/2008 11:50:04 AM PST by A_perfect_lady (History repeats itself because human nature is static.)
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To: Sisku Hanne

“Bad” patriotism comes from identifying patriotism with a political position or faction. Germans identifying Nazism with Germany attacked its true interests.

Patriotism which is based on hatred of mankind or other nations is bad. Self-interest requires cooperation with other nations just as it does for a person with other persons.

I don’t really see a significant difference between patriotism and nationalism since “fatherlandism” and nationalism are both based upon the same base, the nation (fatherland, motherland).


59 posted on 11/13/2008 11:51:23 AM PST by arrogantsob (Hero vs Zero)
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To: Sisku Hanne
Is it patriotism to call fellow veterans baby killers and war criminals? Is it patriotism to lie about the President? Is it patriotism to run down the country? Do code pink think they are patriots? Some people are just hateful.
60 posted on 11/13/2008 11:58:26 AM PST by mountainlion (concerned conservative.)
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To: Sisku Hanne

There are many, many examples, for example segregationists made (and white supremacists still make) frequent appeals to patriotism.

For example, you could critique:

http://www.nationalist.org/alt/2002/121701.html


61 posted on 11/13/2008 11:59:06 AM PST by M. Dodge Thomas
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To: Sisku Hanne
Here is something I wrote a while back. It might get you thinking in a direction which will help you write your paper -- ZGuy

Clinton and Reid are patriots

“Neither party holds a patent on patriotism. I know all my Republican colleagues would agree with that” – Harry Reid. October 1, 2007

The question arises from democrats every four years: “Are you questioning my patriotism?” And every four years the Republicans respond: “Of course not.”

And they are right. The Democrats are patriots--Along with every terrorist-supporting U.S. citizen and historical figures ranging from Benedict Arnold to Timothy McVeigh.

If you do not believe this is true, it is because you do not hold to the same meaning of “patriotism” or “patriotic” as most people in this country do.

To most people, being patriotic means you support those things which you believe are best for this country. But this is not a definition, it is a truism. On that basis the person who thinks that this country would be best under a dictatorship, or without humans, or any other thing could be classified as patriotic—because they support making the United States the way they would like it to be. The Islamic terrorist is just as patriotic as the next guy because he truly supports what he thinks would be best for this country—for everyone to bow to Mecca and for women to wear veils, etc.

Patriotism in modern society means nothing more than “I support what I think.” To which I ask, “Who doesn’t?” And while this may pose as a deep thought on most university campuses, I think it’s time we came up with a more solid definition.

Here’s one to get the ball rolling—Patriotism is supporting and fighting for those original principles which the country was founded upon and which are documented in the writings of the founding fathers which are only to be understood in the context of their original intent.

Of course such a definition will never be adopted. The democrats will never allow it. It represents everything they are fighting against. And feeling good about overthrowing everything that the founding fathers fought for is what it’s all about isn’t it? Harry and Hillary – patriots. In a pig’s eye.

62 posted on 11/13/2008 12:00:44 PM PST by ZGuy
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To: Sisku Hanne

Cite Hitler and the hypnotized masses blindly follwing him because he was a brilliant orator, straight into socializm and then to naziism and death...

See if your teacher is able to make a connection to any recently elected presidents


63 posted on 11/13/2008 12:04:10 PM PST by Mr. K (Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help)
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To: Sisku Hanne

Is it patriotism to say it is patriotic to pay more taxes?


64 posted on 11/13/2008 12:09:35 PM PST by mountainlion (concerned conservative.)
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To: Sisku Hanne

Patriotism is a neutral thing. The Nazis were Patriotic. So were the Spartans.


65 posted on 11/13/2008 12:10:32 PM PST by arderkrag (Liberty Walking (www.geocities.com/arderkrag))
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To: Sisku Hanne
You are exactly right in your reasoning!

There is a great difference between Patriotism which is a “fatherly love for one’s country and people”; and Nationalism.
Unfortunately, most people educated in the last 30-40 years were not taught that distinction, and indeed to many, the words are now synonyms. Even some dictionaries now refer to them that way.
You ought to educate your teacher and write about the difference, and then give a bad example of “Nationalism”!

67 posted on 11/13/2008 12:32:03 PM PST by ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY ( The Constitution needs No interpreting, only APPLICATION!)
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