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The assignment is to describe a true account of patriotism (for any nation) that has gone bad, and discuss the negative effects. But I don't think there is such a thing as a bad example of patriotism. I submit there is a difference; a dividing line between patriotism and nationalism, which obviously can be a bad thing. It's like the difference between love and obsession; one is a positive healthy expression, and the other takes it to an obsessive extreme level that can be twisted into evil. I'm interested in the opinions of others on this. Do you think patriotism is ever a bad thing?
1 posted on 11/13/2008 11:02:58 AM PST by Sisku Hanne
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To: Sisku Hanne

My country right or wrong.
To support her when right.
To right her when wrong.


2 posted on 11/13/2008 11:04:29 AM PST by stocksthatgoup
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To: Sisku Hanne

Joe Biden’s notion that paying taxes is patriotic...


3 posted on 11/13/2008 11:05:16 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: Sisku Hanne

Write it on your own terms. Challenge the premise of the assignment by writing about the difference between patriotism and nationalism.


4 posted on 11/13/2008 11:06:13 AM PST by counterpunch ( We must not re-fight 2008 in 2012.)
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To: Sisku Hanne

Write it on your own terms. Challenge the premise of the assignment by writing about the difference between patriotism and nationalism.


5 posted on 11/13/2008 11:06:54 AM PST by counterpunch ( We must not re-fight 2008 in 2012.)
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To: Sisku Hanne

Look at Nazi Germany for an example patriotism gone awry. It started out good but ended badly with the wrong leader.


8 posted on 11/13/2008 11:08:54 AM PST by lilylangtree (Veni, Vidi, Vici)
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To: Sisku Hanne

Sounds like the teacher of your course has the typical liberal academic bias against anything patriotic. In their tiny, well indoctrinated minds, patriotism is a rabid, anti-multicultural form of nationalism, with xenophobia thrown in for good measure, ala Hitler. So Hitler or Mussolini would make good examples. Oh, and Napoleon. When I had squishes like that for professors, I always made it a point to find out what THEY think and parrot it back to them. They never know the difference and think you’re brilliant because you agree with them. I guarantee you’ll get an A.


9 posted on 11/13/2008 11:10:11 AM PST by 3AngelaD (They screwed up their own countries so bad they had to leave, and now they're here screwing up ours.)
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To: Sisku Hanne

Sounds like the teacher of your course has the typical liberal academic bias against anything patriotic. In their tiny, well indoctrinated minds, patriotism is a rabid, anti-multicultural form of nationalism, with xenophobia thrown in for good measure, ala Hitler. So Hitler or Mussolini would make good examples. Oh, and Napoleon. When I had squishes like that for professors, I always made it a point to find out what THEY think and parrot it back to them. They never know the difference and think you’re brilliant because you agree with them. I guarantee you’ll get an A.


10 posted on 11/13/2008 11:10:54 AM PST by 3AngelaD (They screwed up their own countries so bad they had to leave, and now they're here screwing up ours.)
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To: Sisku Hanne
When I was a kid, an older guy in our neighborhood, a very nice guy with a nice family, was a veteran of the Luftwaffe. He was a former German aristocrat and an Anglophile. It tore him up to bomb London,, but he thought he had a duty to fight for his country, even though Hitler was his country's leader.

Just because of my recollection of him, I am confident that he had no concrete idea of some of the atrocities going on in Germany at the time, but it's hard to believe that no rumors reached him.

I think a case could be made that he was excessively patriotic.

11 posted on 11/13/2008 11:11:10 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Sisku Hanne

Sounds like the teacher of your course has the typical liberal academic bias against anything patriotic. In their tiny, well indoctrinated minds, patriotism is a rabid, anti-multicultural form of nationalism, with xenophobia thrown in for good measure, ala Hitler. So Hitler or Mussolini would make good examples. Oh, and Napoleon. When I had squishes like that for professors, I always made it a point to find out what THEY think and parrot it back to them. They never know the difference and think you’re brilliant because you agree with them. I guarantee you’ll get an A.


12 posted on 11/13/2008 11:11:46 AM PST by 3AngelaD (They screwed up their own countries so bad they had to leave, and now they're here screwing up ours.)
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To: Sisku Hanne

” I submit there is a difference; a dividing line between patriotism and nationalism, “

I agree. I don’t see patriotism as something aggressive or jingoistic. Nationalism can be as evidenced be dictators throughout history.


13 posted on 11/13/2008 11:12:04 AM PST by DemonDeac
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To: Sisku Hanne

The distinction you make between excessive nationalism and patriotism is exactly the point you should make. You could call it also blind patriotism, which means that you by default support the state/regime/government of your country only because it’s currently at the helm. A healthy patriotic German would have resisted the Nazi regime, a blind patriotic German supported the regime, if not because of ideology, simply because of uncritical loyalty. The same goes for any other evil totalitarian system. Dissent to a harmful, evil or even suicidal regime/state/government can be the highest form of patriotism. The Loyalists during the Revolutionary War thought themselves to be patriotic and loyal towards the British Crown, while the American revolutionaries dissented towards their king and were patriotic to their country. You see it can also be a question of perspective.


15 posted on 11/13/2008 11:13:26 AM PST by SolidWood (Sarah Palin - Everything that is Sweetness and Light! WE STAND WITH HER!)
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To: Sisku Hanne

The distinction you make between excessive nationalism and patriotism is exactly the point. You could call it also blind patriotism, which means that you by default support the state/regime/government of your country only because it’s currently at the helm. A healthy patriotic German would have resisted the Nazi regime, a blind patriotic German supported the regime, if not because of ideology, simply because of uncritical loyalty towards the state. The same goes for any other evil totalitarian system, which though bad for the country, successfully exploited the patriotism people have towards their country. Dissent to a harmful, evil or even suicidal regime/state/government can be the highest form of patriotism. The Loyalists during the Revolutionary War thought themselves to be patriotic and loyal towards the British Crown, while the American revolutionaries dissented towards their king and were patriotic to their ideals of a free country. You see it can also be a question of perspective.


16 posted on 11/13/2008 11:16:39 AM PST by SolidWood (Sarah Palin - Everything that is Sweetness and Light! WE STAND WITH HER!)
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To: Sisku Hanne

When working on an assignment like this, it is important to establish working definitions at the onset. Thus, define “patriotism” in terms of the assignment, being aware of and perhaps making the point that the definition can vary from the undermining patriotism of the NYT to the genocide of the NAZI’s. I would then pick the best (worst) liberal example I could find, i.e. Hanoi Jane, and expound on this.


17 posted on 11/13/2008 11:17:14 AM PST by jimmyray
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To: Sisku Hanne
It's all going to depend on your definition, then. If patriotism is defined as a virtue, there can't be a bad example of it, per definition. However if you define it as a loyalty to country which can sometimes fall short, sometimes exceed the mark, sometimes be expressed in a twisted or distorted way, there are numerous examples of where patriotism has run off the track.

An example would be the Hitler Youth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Youth

18 posted on 11/13/2008 11:17:19 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Make things as simple as possible, but not simpler."--- Einstein)
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To: Sisku Hanne

When working on an assignment like this, it is important to establish working definitions at the onset. Thus, define “patriotism” in terms of the assignment, being aware of and perhaps making the point that the definition can vary from the undermining patriotism of the NYT to the genocide of the NAZI’s. I would then pick the best (worst) liberal example I could find, i.e. Hanoi Jane, and expound on this.


19 posted on 11/13/2008 11:17:36 AM PST by jimmyray
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To: Sisku Hanne

Patriotism is a positive word by definition, like words love, family, friend. But, that does not preclude this word from wrong application to do bad things. For example, in modern history...the democrats in congress claiming patriotic pride causes them to make statements which ended up emboldening our enemies and killing more of our own soldiers and innocents. The suffering caused by their “patriotism” went so far as far as for a sitting House member to declare several military personnel guilty without trial, to the press to use this to harm our efforts to liberate millions of people. I would think these are good examples of patriotism being used (wrongly of course because it truly is not patriotic) to impede good and in affect to support evil.


21 posted on 11/13/2008 11:19:35 AM PST by Wpin (God Bless All Americans, God Damn all democrats...oops he already has.)
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To: Sisku Hanne

No, I think your analysis is spot on target. Patriotism is a virtue, so there’s no bad version of it, unlike nationalism.

The only thing I can think of is that some loves should not be put above other ones. If you loved your country more than you loved God, for instance, that would be bad....just like if you loved your dog more than your wife.


22 posted on 11/13/2008 11:19:37 AM PST by Claud
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To: Sisku Hanne

I don’t think it’s ever a bad thing either, but if you blather on for a few paragraphs about ‘an illegal and unjust war’, you’ll probably get a better grade than you would otherwise.


23 posted on 11/13/2008 11:20:38 AM PST by perfect_rovian_storm
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To: Sisku Hanne
I have to write about patriotism for an ethics course, and give a "bad" example of it.

How about Biden's claim that it is patriotic to pay more taxes. That's not just bad, it's stupid.

24 posted on 11/13/2008 11:21:45 AM PST by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall cause you to vote against the Democrats.)
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To: Sisku Hanne

It’s a bad thing if you’re living in Stalin-era Russia or Nazi Germany.


25 posted on 11/13/2008 11:21:54 AM PST by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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