Posted on 11/07/2008 10:40:35 AM PST by Traviswf
Hi there. I voted for Obama, but have been reading a lot of Freerepublic lately to see how the other side is reacting. I'm not trying to troll here - honestly - but if you feel I am, that's understandable. I just wanted to offer a perspective on this that I think may be interesting to some of you. Oh, and this is much longer than I intended. And I'm fairly certain I'm not posting this the right way...for which I apologize.
When Bush was elected in 2000, I was upset. And yes, I whined about him "stealing" the election. I don't really think that's true anymore - it was just a painful way to lose. Sure, we can whine about the popular vote vs. the electoral vote, but you can't change the rules in the middle of the game. Then I watched the movie Recount and realized just how awful the democrats were at trying to win the damn thing. Gore seemed like he didn't really want it.
When Bush won in 2004, I was absolutely devastated. I thought the world was going to end. I didn't think we should be in Iraq, I agreed with Kerry that we had to finish the fight in Afganistan. I was worried about the courts. And frankly - I just didn't like Bush. I didn't like the way he governed, the way he spoke, and the way he talked as if we on the left were less American.
On 9/11 I happened to be in Toronto on business. When the towers fell, I knew I had to get home. A colleague and I wanted to go to New York, to help in some way. But we were told nobody was getting anywhere close. Our next instinct was to get home - to California. We didn't just want to be with our families, we desperately wanted to be in our country. That day was rough because my colleague thought his wife might have been on one of the planes - her travel plans were very similar. It took hours of agony before we, thank God, found out she was safe.
So we rented a car in Toronto and drove across the country. It took a couple hours to get across the border in the middle of the night. We stopped in Omaha, and then Colorado. I can't even tell you how much I loved my country driving across its beauty in those days after the attacks. And there were no jokes about "we're in enemy territory" because we were in "red states." We were in America. Everywhere we went people said "How are you? Is everyone safe?"
I know everyone has similar stories of those days. And certainly many, many people have stories of real loss - not just "we thought we lost someone, but it was a happy ending." Then, fairly quickly, I felt my patriotism coming under attack because I had a difference of opinion about how to fight back. I didn't think Iraq was the right choice - it made no sense to me, and I certainly wasn't alone. But people questioned my love of my country. And that was very, very hard to forgive.
When 2008 came up, more than anything, I wanted to win the White House back. I wanted to punish the Bush administration for what I felt was not just a failure to be competent, but a failure to keep the country united. I inititally supported Hilary, but I had this feeling in my gut that she was just going to be Bush - but for our side. She'd be a partisan warrior, a polarizing figure (which Bush wasn't when he started, but Hilary already was...). It made me sick to my stomach.
I wanted to go back to feeling like an American in those days after the attack - where our disagreements were things we laughed about over a beer and the real threat was far, far more serious.
I'd written Obama's candidacy off as a dry run for 2016 or later. Or maybe he was running for VP. I thought - hey, dude, at least finish a term in the Senate. Then when he said "we're not a collection of red states and blue states, we're the United States of America" it hit me like lightning. It had nothing to do with him - it had to do with the country, and my love for it and this feeling deep down in my gut that we were fighting over the placement of the deck chairs while the ship was sinking.
Wow, this got really rambly. Sorry about that. Here's why I posted initially. I saw this thing on here about Obama's "national defense force" and some posters commenting about the coming civil war or some such. I'm pretty sure Obama was just talking about funding for police. I mean - are you guys really worried he's going to do this? There was a rumor on the left that Bush was bringing a military brigade trained in "riot control" home from Iraq before the elections. People were convinced Bush was going to take over the country in a military coup. I'm sure you think that's laughable - as do I. Obama is not going to raise a civilian force of brown coats. First of all there's no money for it, nobody would go for it, and he'd be laughed out of the White House.
He's also not a socialist. And he's not coming for your guns. If he did either of this things, he can basically just go home now. Those are not realistic positions for any president to have. He will likely appoint liberals - at least too liberal for you guys - to the courts.
But here's the thing. He's going to try and be a good president. I think they all do. And Obama ran on uniting the country, on being bipartisan. That's sort of ALL he ran on. It's how he won 60% of independent and brought home so many of the Clinton voters. So if he doesn't deliver on this - I imagine he'll be fairly easy to beat in 2012.
So that's my two cents. Obama was always going to get my vote as the nominee because I'm a lifelong democrat and a liberal. But I'm not a socialist or a pacifist. I believe in the 2nd amendment and favor the idea of most issues being decided by the states. I'm not a religious man, but I respect those who are and I think the Dems over reach in pushing religion out of the public square. I believe global warming is a serious problem, but I also think Al Gore enjoys it WAY too much.
And here's another caveat. I know it's easier to be bipartisan and talk about "togetherness" when my guy won. I was where you guys are now in 2000 and 2004. I mean, my party ALMOST ran Howard Dean and then said "No wait! John Kerry is a much better idea!" Or in this election to have a friend say "You've GOT to read Alec Baldwin's latest piece on HuffPo." I mean...really? He doesn't count as an "Obamacon" you know, he only plays a republican on TV...(you guys ever notice that our most annoying Hollywood liberals end up playing republicans? what's with that?)
So yeah - we've all spent some time in the woods. I just hope we can all agree that we're just as American as the other, and we're passionate about what we believe to be the right path to take. There are real problems with the economy, and Islamic Terrorists aren't going to take a vacation for four years.
That's about it I guess. Sorry you guys lost.
You sound like a nice and sincere guy. For that reason I’ll thank you for taking the time to share your ideas and observations, especially knowing you’d be inviting upon yourself the fury of a ton of angry FReepers. You know how it feels to be disappointed by the results of an election...thanks for not kicking us when we’re down.
That said, I wish I shared your excitement about the upcoming Obama administration. Unfortunately, I do not. I think we will all find out, sooner rather than later, that he has duped his followers. There are so many unanswered questions about who he is, what he believes and what he has/hasn’t done in his life. It seems that it is unacceptable to ask those questions, though.
I think the thing that bothers me the most is the outright worship of this man. Sure, conservatives LOVED President Reagan (still do), but he proved himself first. And even then, you didn’t see people crying or fainting in his presence. You didn’t see his face splashed across his campaign signs. People loved him, but understood that he was simply human. Thus far, Barack Obama has done nothing of note but deliver several well-written speeches full of airy-fairy promises and feel-good rhetoric. I have not been able to figure out the hypnotic effect he’s had on so many people, particularly given his thin resume of achievement. It’s pure idolatry, and more than a little disturbing.
Let’s face it, the expectations on Barack Obama’s presidency are astronomical. He has no realistic chance of keeping all the promises he made while campaigning, which is why his camp began attempting to lower those expectations shortly before Election Day. Those who have pinned their hopes (and perhaps their very lives) on this man are sure to be the most devastated when he falls (and he inevitably will, as would any president). Some heard only what they wanted to when listening to him speak. They are counting on him to solve their every problem. They seem to believe that they’ll never have to work again and all their bills will be paid by the government. The problem with the unprecedented hype around this man is that he has nowhere to go but down.
I fear the kind of “change” Obama will try to bring to America. I have family living in a socialist nation. You don’t want to get them started on the “foolish” Americans who blindly support these ideals...Americans who’ve never actually experienced socialism for themselves. It’s easy to read about, or even visit, a country that embraces socialism and to romanticize the concept. Living there is quite a different matter. Ask those who’ve shared a MASH-type hospital “room” with 9 other people. Ask those who’ve had to wait an entire year to get home telephone service (only to have their phone numbers changed from time to time and without any notice). No, I’m not too excited about the changes Obama may have lined up for us, but I have committed to praying for him daily. For his wisdom in the decisions he makes, for the counsel he keeps, even for his safety and that of his family and staff. I trust God above any man. I hope Obama does, as well.
I fear you are in for some real surprise and disillusionment, but I do appreciate your perspective and your offering it in such a gracious manner.
TXBlair
The MSM certainly didn’t do their job. We know very little about him.
I have had this theory about the birth certificate for quite a while now and have posted it before today. It just makes sense to me.
Illegitimacy is nothing to be ashamed of...NOW, but back when he was growing up it certainly was.
His father couldn’t have legally married his mother in the US, he was already married back in Kenya. His mother married Soetoro and he adopted Barry,therfore the school records for Barry Soetoro. Of course when he came back to HI, he was a young bi-racial teen living with white gransdparents. How confusing it must have been! We know teens are always trying to establish their own identity, even the so called normal ones. I think that is when he began spinning the stories of his father and early life. As he got older, he kept up the identity he had created as a teen. He can’t drop it now. He’s told it too long and to admit he made that up would open the rest of his story to scrutiny and maybe there are more lies or half truths hidden there. People might begin to question, what else is he hiding or lying about?
I know it doesn't match the dictionary definition of "socialism", but when the government tells me what to do with my money, that's it. Perhaps we should come up with a better name. How about "nanny-state-ism"?
Seriously, should the state coerce me into saving for my retirement?
... or buying health insurance?
... or providing a college education?
Any of these things should be my responsibility and my choice. Or, if I choose, it should be my choice to provide these things for another person or organization of my choosing.
But Mr Obama wishes to provide all these things for everyone in the nation, and he is going to take more from ME to provide these things for everyone else. He is going to "spread the wealth around". He is going to spread MY wealth around whether I approve of it or not.
It's more than spending money on social programs. It the whole "don't worry about making bad decisions ... we are going to take care of you with no regard for your culpability in the situation".
One of the guys at work has a sign that says "Stupidity should be painful". Those who are sometimes described as "leftist" (I would argue "up-ists") seem to be bent on making stupidity painless. While making wisdom and self-direction and personal responsibility and success painful.
I posted about this elsewhere - I don’t believe it IS involuntary servitude.
Check the link - nowhere does it say anyone HAS to do it.
http://change.gov/americaserves/
You don’t HAVE to join Americorps or the Peace Corps.
And this part: “Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by setting a goal that all middle school and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year...” can be construed to require children to serve - but he’s only “calling” on them to. The same way Kennedy did. The same way Bush “called” on Americans to go out and help the economy by spending money. Nobody was required to do so.
But, honestly, I don’t find it a completely terrible idea. I roomed with a couple of Israeli grad students one year, and they both had served in the military - as all Israelis do. And they just had more investment - more of a tangible sense of service to their country and a vested interest in the policies of their government.
Though I find it interesting, I don’t think I’d ultimately support such a thing. And it was never something Obama spoke about during the campaign - but this expansion of Americorps and calling to service as well as providing tax credits for education - was all there before.
Great post!
Poor choice of words on my part. Sorry, I hadn’t had dinner yet and my mind wasn’t working.
Those who EARN more, give more. Those who simply have more (can you say John Kerry?) give squat.
Thanks for the correction.
All right, I’m sick of this guy.
We can has ZOT now?
This sounds bad to you? 25,000 emergency personnel and doctors, planners and other specialists organized to provide assistance “in times of need at home and abroad.”
That’s not a police force or military or anything like it. It’s an answer to the disaster that was Katrina or 9/11. An effort to better organize the flood of volunteers and personnel who tried to get in to New Orleans or New York when disaster struck.
I am uncertain how, in a changing climate with increasingly extreme weather and terrorists plotting attacks - how such a thing could POSSIBLY be bad.
Didn't see that reply.
I don’t believe it IS involuntary servitude.
Let's go with the quickest def, Wikipedia:
Involuntary servitude is a United States legal and constitutional term for a person laboring against that person's will to benefit another, under some form of coercion.
Check the link - nowhere does it say anyone HAS to do it.
http://change.gov/americaserves/
As others have pointed out, Change.gov's content has mysteriously changed before and probably will continue to change as each new update p!sses off more and more people.
And this part: “Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by setting a goal that all middle school and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year...” can be construed to require children to serve - but he’s only “calling” on them to.
Re-read what you quoted.
The fact that you can support a man that would even hint at slavery is beyond disgusting.
But, honestly, I don’t find it a completely terrible idea.
You scare me.
Slavery, in any form, is evil.
And it was never something Obama spoke about during the campaign
Maybe you weren't paying attention?
Maybe you were so damn obsessed with defeating the Republican and winning that you didn't pay attention to negatives of your candidate?
Maybe you realize what a mistake you've made and, instead of manning up and admitting it, you're willing to support any damn thing your boy wants in order to avoid looking like a fool?
It doesn't matter. You've made your position clear.
I say the following as an atheist: God help America.
Take a look at Change.gov is changing.
This is a classic example of what I was talking about. Take something that is a laudable personal decision. Then FORCE someone to make that decision. Then FORCE someone else to foot the bill.
After all these kids are forced to “volunteer”, how are all these overseeing organizations going to be funded?
Isn't it funny that someone who claims to want to “spread the wealth” and who believes we “are our brother's keeper” never seems to get around to spreading HIS OWN wealth or keeping HIS OWN brother (or aunt). It seems to always be spread MY wealth whether I want to or not.
Thanks for this post. I truly appreciate it. And I understand what you’re saying. I live in California now, but I lived in New England growing up. I grew up in the sticks, and would get comments about being my sister’s son and so forth.
I’ve driven across the country a few times, and I’ve never gone to a state I outright didn’t like. Driving across Kansas felt like the Twilight Zone for a bit in that it was so flat and big I didn’t think we were moving. The “red states” are just like any other state and the caricatures of the midwest or the south are just flat out wrong and ignorant.
But now I live in California and I get the same comments about how fruity and “elitist” we are and how we’re not truly American. I’ve actually been scoffed at when people have seen my driver’s license. Just because I live in California. I could have been the hardest core Freeper in the country and this guy was judging me on geography. Now, GRANTED, he may have just had excellent liberal radar.
And I don’t think there’s anything outright wrong with conservative ideas, just as I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with liberal ideas. But both get perverted, twisted, manipulated. I think there’s a middle ground - a kind of stasis - where the country is best served by a clash of liberal and conservative ideals.
For instance, if Obama really turns out to be a crazy socialist Manchurian candidate Islamic terrorist android from Venus - I’d trust that the Republicans in congress would take action.
The problem with that is the news media would have to report it accurately in order for the Republicans to get the support necessary to take action. Do you really think that the MSM is going to accurately report anything that might make Mr. Obama look bad? They have refused to do so for the past year ... why should they ever change?
I hear you on that one. That is always the biggest battleground between the opposing ideological sides. And I would imagine that you’ll not like Obama’s nominees for the court any better than I liked Bush’s.
Wasn’t that what McCain and Bush wanted with tax cuts?
Absolutely not!!! Tax cuts allow capital to generate prosperity through the capitalistic free market. The market is the generator of the economy. Spreading money around directly, by taxing and redistributing it, takes money out of the market slowing it down. When government mandates it it is called socialism.
Our Constitution stands squarely in opposition to the philosophy of it.
Choose your side ... while you can.
The mainstream media was quite happy to report that there wasn’t any...Really? Where did the mainstream media report that Iraq's known stores of yellowcake Uranium did not exist?
Put down the crack pipe.When we went into Afghanistan, Iran offered to let us use their air bases to stage attacks from.
That's a fact.
Think Germany with their Hitler
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Think Blacks with their Abortions
No, more like having *you* deleted.
Your account is banned or suspended, depending on how long you've been here, how much you've been a respected poster, and how serious the offense.
Search for the "Viking Kitty" Ping list and watch a couple of the threads, you'll get the idea.
Kyrie Eleison!
I agree expectations are just too much to ever be met. But, Obama probably did enough in the “hope” department for most people by being an African American elected, and by being a democrat elected after Bush. We’re all just hoping he’s one better than “doesn’t suck.”
And I’ve never met anyone who campaigned for, donated to or voted for Obama who thought Obama was going to give them handouts, so that they won’t have to work or pay bills. Nobody - ever.
I mean...what about Oprah? She’s like a super capitalist. Does anyone think she’d accept socialism?
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