Posted on 11/07/2008 10:40:35 AM PST by Traviswf
Hi there. I voted for Obama, but have been reading a lot of Freerepublic lately to see how the other side is reacting. I'm not trying to troll here - honestly - but if you feel I am, that's understandable. I just wanted to offer a perspective on this that I think may be interesting to some of you. Oh, and this is much longer than I intended. And I'm fairly certain I'm not posting this the right way...for which I apologize.
When Bush was elected in 2000, I was upset. And yes, I whined about him "stealing" the election. I don't really think that's true anymore - it was just a painful way to lose. Sure, we can whine about the popular vote vs. the electoral vote, but you can't change the rules in the middle of the game. Then I watched the movie Recount and realized just how awful the democrats were at trying to win the damn thing. Gore seemed like he didn't really want it.
When Bush won in 2004, I was absolutely devastated. I thought the world was going to end. I didn't think we should be in Iraq, I agreed with Kerry that we had to finish the fight in Afganistan. I was worried about the courts. And frankly - I just didn't like Bush. I didn't like the way he governed, the way he spoke, and the way he talked as if we on the left were less American.
On 9/11 I happened to be in Toronto on business. When the towers fell, I knew I had to get home. A colleague and I wanted to go to New York, to help in some way. But we were told nobody was getting anywhere close. Our next instinct was to get home - to California. We didn't just want to be with our families, we desperately wanted to be in our country. That day was rough because my colleague thought his wife might have been on one of the planes - her travel plans were very similar. It took hours of agony before we, thank God, found out she was safe.
So we rented a car in Toronto and drove across the country. It took a couple hours to get across the border in the middle of the night. We stopped in Omaha, and then Colorado. I can't even tell you how much I loved my country driving across its beauty in those days after the attacks. And there were no jokes about "we're in enemy territory" because we were in "red states." We were in America. Everywhere we went people said "How are you? Is everyone safe?"
I know everyone has similar stories of those days. And certainly many, many people have stories of real loss - not just "we thought we lost someone, but it was a happy ending." Then, fairly quickly, I felt my patriotism coming under attack because I had a difference of opinion about how to fight back. I didn't think Iraq was the right choice - it made no sense to me, and I certainly wasn't alone. But people questioned my love of my country. And that was very, very hard to forgive.
When 2008 came up, more than anything, I wanted to win the White House back. I wanted to punish the Bush administration for what I felt was not just a failure to be competent, but a failure to keep the country united. I inititally supported Hilary, but I had this feeling in my gut that she was just going to be Bush - but for our side. She'd be a partisan warrior, a polarizing figure (which Bush wasn't when he started, but Hilary already was...). It made me sick to my stomach.
I wanted to go back to feeling like an American in those days after the attack - where our disagreements were things we laughed about over a beer and the real threat was far, far more serious.
I'd written Obama's candidacy off as a dry run for 2016 or later. Or maybe he was running for VP. I thought - hey, dude, at least finish a term in the Senate. Then when he said "we're not a collection of red states and blue states, we're the United States of America" it hit me like lightning. It had nothing to do with him - it had to do with the country, and my love for it and this feeling deep down in my gut that we were fighting over the placement of the deck chairs while the ship was sinking.
Wow, this got really rambly. Sorry about that. Here's why I posted initially. I saw this thing on here about Obama's "national defense force" and some posters commenting about the coming civil war or some such. I'm pretty sure Obama was just talking about funding for police. I mean - are you guys really worried he's going to do this? There was a rumor on the left that Bush was bringing a military brigade trained in "riot control" home from Iraq before the elections. People were convinced Bush was going to take over the country in a military coup. I'm sure you think that's laughable - as do I. Obama is not going to raise a civilian force of brown coats. First of all there's no money for it, nobody would go for it, and he'd be laughed out of the White House.
He's also not a socialist. And he's not coming for your guns. If he did either of this things, he can basically just go home now. Those are not realistic positions for any president to have. He will likely appoint liberals - at least too liberal for you guys - to the courts.
But here's the thing. He's going to try and be a good president. I think they all do. And Obama ran on uniting the country, on being bipartisan. That's sort of ALL he ran on. It's how he won 60% of independent and brought home so many of the Clinton voters. So if he doesn't deliver on this - I imagine he'll be fairly easy to beat in 2012.
So that's my two cents. Obama was always going to get my vote as the nominee because I'm a lifelong democrat and a liberal. But I'm not a socialist or a pacifist. I believe in the 2nd amendment and favor the idea of most issues being decided by the states. I'm not a religious man, but I respect those who are and I think the Dems over reach in pushing religion out of the public square. I believe global warming is a serious problem, but I also think Al Gore enjoys it WAY too much.
And here's another caveat. I know it's easier to be bipartisan and talk about "togetherness" when my guy won. I was where you guys are now in 2000 and 2004. I mean, my party ALMOST ran Howard Dean and then said "No wait! John Kerry is a much better idea!" Or in this election to have a friend say "You've GOT to read Alec Baldwin's latest piece on HuffPo." I mean...really? He doesn't count as an "Obamacon" you know, he only plays a republican on TV...(you guys ever notice that our most annoying Hollywood liberals end up playing republicans? what's with that?)
So yeah - we've all spent some time in the woods. I just hope we can all agree that we're just as American as the other, and we're passionate about what we believe to be the right path to take. There are real problems with the economy, and Islamic Terrorists aren't going to take a vacation for four years.
That's about it I guess. Sorry you guys lost.
If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember what you said. Otherwise .. . .
Those threads are not rare, my friend.
To believe 9/11 was an inside job, I believe one does actually have to be mentally ill.
Before and after. We stopped most flying from SA after Khobar.
Thank you. Of course I meant Barry Dunham in my reply.
I was trying to make it look like the kitties going after a liberal.
Personally, I think Kos looks like one of the Peanuts gang. It’s his eyes.
Really?
You sure?
The mainstream media was quite happy to report that there wasn’t any...
“For that matter, Iran hated Saddam Hussein so much, they would have let us use their air bases. “
Put down the crack pipe.
I really think this may be the answer, given the explanation about torpedoing his entire life story.
It just goes to show you that the media was completely uninterested in investigating this guy that we're not even sure about his background. They really did abdicate the only legitimate role they have (as opposed to the role they like - kingmakers).
The Unknown President . . .
Sounds like an emergency team, however each state will have 25,000 people given the powers of the military. Also draft comes to mind. The civilian police with powers of the military.
First off, you are not the only one to feel offended and treated poorly by your fellow Americans across the political divide.
It happens to me often. You see, I left my New England home many, many years ago to serve my country. I wound up, after more than two decades, in the Deep South, a beautiful part of America with extremely friendly and wonderful people who continue to amaze me. But I often have to go back up North (and often to the Seattle, Wash area), and going back to before Pres Bush was even elected, I would hear the most outrageous, ignorant things about the South, Southern people, the military, and conservatives from Northerners and liberals that you could imagine.
The idea that Southerners are dumber than Northerners, or less educated, or missing teeth, or married to their sister, or racist redneck crackers (I remember South Boston in the early 70’s!), many in the North take for granted. There really isn't much difference at all. We're all Americans.
I have seen some of the worst vilification of people directed at fundamentalist Christian people—who are called the “Religious Right”—by who, the nonreligious Left? I am a Catholic, a difficult thing to be in Alabama, but I have no problem with anyone who believes in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I mean, Christ the Gentle, Christ who told us to turn the other cheek, Christ who said the meek shall inherit the World, Christ the Lamb, Christ who suffered, died and was buried, and then on the Third Day Rose... How anyone can feel threatened by a true Christian makes no sense. Yet it was, and is, certainly so. And I have seen this vilification mostly in the Northeast and West coasts.
Second point, what is so wrong with conservative ideals? The misconception of conservative belief from the Left is either ignorant or disingenuous.
No one on the Right hates blacks, but we don't want to unjustly bear the burden of our forefathers. This nation suffered a terrible civil war that paid the price of slavery in 600,000 dead. We want black people to succeed, just like the rest of us, by simply doing what MOST of them are doing, getting an education and getting to work. If that means they have to compete for college admissions and jobs, well, then they'd be just like the rest of us.
I can't explain why I see the things I do here in the South. There are still a lot of black people living in ghettos or very poor condidtions, while jobs vacancies continue to go begging. Since some blacks work in these places I know it is not white racism keeping others out, so what is it? I can not explain, but unless we have a REAL dialog, one where we can talk--without being accused of racism--about teen-age and out-of-wedlock pregnancies, the attitude that think doing well at school is being white, and drug dealing and criminal behavior is cool, things are just not going to get better. Bill Cosby needs to be listened to, not castigated.
We are not opposed to Mexican immigrants, but rather illegal immigration (hence the laws against it). People who are breaking the law are not victims. The real victims are those who wait in line and legally apply to be immigrants to this fine land.
We don't care what goes on behind closed doors in the privacy of your own bedroom, but please do NOT share that information with our children.
We want women to succeed, also, as at least half of conservatives are women, or are someone very close to one (wife, mother, sister). We agree on equal pay for EQUAL (meaning the same) work, but also do acknowledge that there is a physical difference between the sexes, so no we don't want our wives, mothers or sisters having to fight the enemy in hand-to-hand combat, as combat is still not like an episode of Charlie's Angels or Kill Bill Volume 2.
We don't want to work hard everyday, only to see other people who don't work at all, demand the government take from us to give to them. They need to be working like us.
We see in the democratic party and the Obama campaign that same vilivication of our ideas and ideals that you saw from Republicans and the Bush administration. Either one side is right and the other side is wrong, or both sides are wrong, or maybe it's even possible that both sides have some ideas right and other ideas wrong.
Anyway, I suppose after 500 posts you've heard replies from every possible angle. This has been mine. Enjoy!
If 0bama was born abroad, as his Kenyan grandma insists he was, and his mother was under 19 years of age, which she was, then he would not be considered a “natural born citizen” as required by the Constitution. I don’t have a link, but this inconvenient tidbit was documented numerous times on this forum in the past month, so shame on all the uninformed who still pass this canard about mommy being an American citizen. Not enough. And there are questions about his Indonesian passport, aren’t there.
Cue Babs Streisand.....
“FEEEEEEEEELINGS! JUST FEEEEELINGS...”
Nice try, but your post is typical of a liberal, infatuated by Obama’s Magic Negro act.
I was a hippie in my youth...all about “feelings’, great for youth. I still have feelings , lots of feelings about America; pride, protectiveness and hope. Yet now, I look at reality and discern who I am so swayed by emotionally. Then I analyze what they stand for, what their record is, and yes..who their friends are.
My summary; At the very best, Obama is far left, in favor of advancing the entitlement society, voting for infanticide,and raised politically by Alinsky ( and other assorted Chicago thugs), narcissitic and ambitious in a very narrow way willing to sway with whatever suits the latest poll (read “the masses”) temperature.
Its very hard to vote for someone who lies about who he really is and refuses to be confronted about that.
Ok, I said all that because of my “feelings” lately: anxiety and sadness. As for you coming on here...Freeepr is not an educational site for Obama infatuated sillies. If you want to hang out and learn something, ok...but I really doubt you want to “debate’ the true issues.
As to Magic Negro....I demonstrated and was involved in defense of civil rights for all Americans. My credentials are no doubt much more extensive than yours in that respect.
Well, the ‘negro’ now tells me he is into Black Liberation Theology (ie rehash of the Black Panthers power stance and racial seperation position...Not integration).
And after years of dedication to equality of ALL Americans, Obama refers to me as a “typical white person> “ As we used to say in the “hippie ‘ days....”You’ve come a long way Baby!”...only now , guess what...as Obama and Rev Wright say...”Oh nooooo,,, we haven’t.”
Tax cuts work better than taxing people to death.
If people have more of their hard earned dollars in theior pocket, they will spend it.
Tax said dollars out of their pockets, and people will NOT spend as much.
So you’re admitting to trolling.
Obama released a copy of his birth certificate.
***Then by all means send it to us Freepers.
And isn’t he a citizen because his mother was anyway?
***Of course he’s a citizen. He’s a naturalized citizen. Which means he’s ineligible to be president per the rules in the constitution. Where’s that freely offered birth certificate again?
I read the same thing about McCain - that even if he wasn’t born on a base (which I think he was) - his parents are citizens abroad, which makes him an American citizen.
***First, it’s a moot point with McCain because he lost the election, and I woulda been happy to have had him thrown back into the water as the fish that was too small anyways. In addition, there was a “sense of the senate” passed that said explicitly he was a natural born citizen qualified to run for the presidency in 2004, and notably, B. Obama tried to add language to the proposal that would have covered anyone with only one parent who’s a citizen. Why is that?
I always thought that was a non-issue.
***Of course you did. The media ignored it. But it’s worming its way through the courts and could bite your buddy any day now. So try to come up to speed as the representative liberal on this issue.
Though it was interesting that one candidate was born in Panama, one in Hawaii, and one in Alaska. Oh, and Delaware...snooze.
***How is that interesting? 3/4 are qualified for the office, and one is not... per the constitution. You gonna throw out the constitutional requirements if it’s found out that Obama was no natural born?
That trumps everything.
The thing about the US Air Force and US naval Air Forces off the coast, they can refuel the Israeli Air Force if need be and Iraq wouldn’t know.
If Iran struck first, or succeeded in doing something like a dirty bomb or ship like they tried, it might not matter.
One of Bush's biggest failings was he did not understand that the bureaucracy was against him, and a great deal that's attributed to his "incompetence" was the heal digging and outright subversion of several key national security departments (the domestic departments never do what a Republican President wants anyway).
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