The Coming Second Civil War

quesney | quesney

[quesney]

Folks, A profound schism in American society has been exposed and laid bare over the following years — since 9/11, through the events of Iraq to the monstrously socialist bailout of the present day.

John Edwards was right. There are Two Americas, and it is my fear that they fundamentally incompatible and irreconcilable.

We are headed for a conflict, decades in the making, approaching the intensity, scope and chaos of The Civil War.

I don't know what shape it will take or exactly when it will happen. I only know for certain it is coming and it will be messy. I only know for certain that I have little or nothing in common with "fellow Americans" such as Obama, Pelosi and a good chunk of the liberal "opposition", which I increasingly consider nothing more than a euphemism for people I consider aliens, at best.

The space for civilized debate is fast disappearing, when dealing with an "opposition" repeatedly ready to lie, cheat, distort, steal and compromise our national security, sovereignty and founding principles and repeatedly ready to abandon basic manners, civility, reality and logic, all of which are the fundamental basis for civilized debate. What do you call an "opposition" like that. Is it a threat that can be "deabted" with no longer?

I pray the coming conflict and confrontation is not violent, but it will be no less profound and no less significant than the first Civil War.

The very basic issue to be decided is just what is the United States of America, whether the Constitution no more than a piece of paper signifying nothing but pretense and old memories and whether there are still those prepared to fight for it.

Maybe principled leadership will arise that can prevent it. But I think things are rapidly developing beyond the capacity of any one figure -- however Reagenesque or Churchillian -- to stop what I fear is coming.

[Candor7]

Weimar America.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We need a real leader if this rural/urban civil war developes. One of the same caliber as George Washington.I have been looking for him, or will it be a her ( Palin?).

[Candor7]

Weimar America.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

( sorry repost)

Yes , thats right, and the current crop of Nationalist Socialists, ( There is no longer a Democrat Party, but few realize that yet, ask PUMA and Joe Leiberman),under Obama will try and convince America that they won the election because the Republicans"cheated" and will try to organize our nation into a bundle of sticks , bound into "facis".

We need a real leader if this rural/urban civil war developes. One of the same caliber as George Washington.I have been looking for him, or will it be a her ( Palin?).

[conservativegramma]

And you have your head buried up your a**.

[Jack Black]

It is about time we march on DC. But who will lead? how do we organize? Where do we go? Jeff Head has organized a few things in the past, like the protest in Klamath over FedGov cutting off peoples water. A number of original Freepers, including of course our host JimRob, ran a pretty cool protest in Washington back in the Clinton era. I watched it on C-Span. It can be done, and FR is a good place to do it.

[jennguhl]

Still won't matter. No land to win civil war in America now would be a war on ideologies much like the one on terror. There's no winning and will be endless because you cannot change an entire masses ideals and values. You either have to come to a middle ground and common understanding or be at odds indefinitely. War without winning something like history shows gains nothing. There has to be riches, land, or resources.

[Centurion2000]

Still won't matter. No land to win civil war in America now would be a war on ideologies much like the one on terror. There's no winning and will be endless because you cannot change an entire masses ideals and values. You either have to come to a middle ground and common understanding or be at odds indefinitely.

Or one side or the other kills each other off. See the Finnish Civil War for example.

[verity]

Foul mouthed hysterical *****.

[verity]

You folks are all mouth and no action.

A real patriot would initiate action. So what are you going to do?

[Candor7]

So what are you going to do?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Its being done here where I live, but its very rural here.

And its being done very quietly.

"Real patriots<" as you call them do not go off half cocked and draw attention to themselves unless necessary.

Our whole county is ready.

If the $hit hits the fan, we will be safe here. I can't vouch for the rest of the country.

What are YOU going to do?

[Candor7]

Dean, you crack me up. Were you fighting from an entrenchment or house to house?

I have a new 12 ga. Binelli Assault Shot Gun Nova Pump with mag tube extension. ( 8 rnds std shells).

250 rnds is a lot of shooting. How was your shoulder the next day?

Thank you for your service.

[Candor7]

We got about 5 active dairy farms in my small town.

Unless someone shoots all the coos, we will be getting our milk from the teat, not the shelf.

[conservativegramma]

And you still have your head up your ‘rear end’. :)

[Farmer Dean]

I think that you misunderstood what I was saying.My point is how many armed encounters does a resonable person expect to survive.I wouldn’t expect to expend that many rounds,I’d be killed long before 250...

[Anti-Bubba182]

The will be no Civil War. There is not enough widespread guts left to fight one. There is nothing equivalent to the Antebellum south infrastructure to support one. There may be some more violence, but that is about it.

[Candor7]

You are right. Anyone would be killed before 250 were fired.

But maybe the original poster had more than just one battle in mind.

He who shoots first and often wins.

A shotgun often wins such arguments, which is why the US MArines carry them in close combat. A group of 6 or 7 tangos standing together at 50 yards can be taken down with two shots of 12 ga OO buck. And when others come to get the wounded in the dark, do it again, but from a different position.

I could see working through 250 rounds that way over a few weeks or so.

[Farmer Dean]

I had more than one firefight in mind too.I would envision most shoot-outs using a shotgun wouldn”t go past 15 or 20 rounds.On our own out here in the country I don’t know how long we would last or how the threats would be presented.One or two hostiles at a time or maybe 10 or more.I’m fairly proficient with all my weapons,but having no intel for threat assessment would suck.

[Candor7]

I’m fairly proficient with all my weapons,but having no intel for threat assessment would suck.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have your neighbors, and the thing to do is y'all get CB radios, and just start an informal patrol schedule of your area when the time comes.When and if the first wave of gangstahs comes from the city to take your stock, then thats when you will have a showdown.

If you luck out, no one will come, and it will be business as usual with an edge.

City folks would have a bad time of it.

I have great neighbors out here in my country location.All of them are armed.No one will mess with our neighborhood without tanks and full auto weaponry. There is nothing here worth that effort.

[ctdonath2]

For all those who don’t think that a civil war is realistic or likely or some kind of kookfest....

Don't oversimplify other views.

Just because the kooks WANT it to happen doesn't mean it won't. It will, once those who are most willing to stop cooperating find a self-satisfying excuse to do so, and their actions reach a flashpoint ... or some confluence of events finally pushes the self-correcting system past the ability to correct.

Also, there are nuances to the term "civil war" which few take into account. Not everyone is talking about the same thing, some are overlooking certain realities, and many do not anticipate (or perhaps over-anticipate) the dire consequences of their expectations & goals.

As such, there are legitimately differing views about how/when the festivities will begin. Just because someone's perception there of differs from yours does not warrant swift dismissal thereof.

[archy]

I would envision most shoot-outs using a shotgun wouldn”t go past 15 or 20 rounds.

Go past around 60- 75 rounds with plastic-cased shotgun buckshot or slug ammunition, and you'll find that the barrel can become hot enough to melt the plastic cases. It becomes quite possible to chamber a round, then have it either stick in the chamber, or leave sufficient plastic residue to prevent the chambering of a followup round.

There are a few things you can do to help matters, to include leaving the chamber open between shots if things go beyond a dozen or so rounds, to get all the cooling possible. And of course the composition of the plastic used in differing brands of ammunition varies, so some can be expected to do better than others, and your particular gun may have a tighter or looser chamber than others.

Check out what some of the trap/skeeo shooters who fire 200-round strings use- but remember that their lighter target loads don't generate the power, recoil, heat or pressure of full-house buckshot and slug loadings.

[archy]

You either have to come to a middle ground and common understanding or be at odds indefinitely.

Or one side or the other kills each other off. See the Finnish Civil War for example.

I think it's unlikely that any situation such as is envisioned in North America in the XXI Century is likely to conclude after just four months, as Finland's did, though we can hope for such a short duration.

But note that during those four months in 1918, the Finns managed to kill off about 1% of their national population- it took Americans four years of the bloodletting of the U.S. Civil War/ War for Northern Dominance to manage a 2% natiuonal Butcher's Bill.

Too, only about 25% of the dead in the Finnish 1918 example were combat casualties- the rest were either prison camp deaths under freezing conditions, or field executions of enemy captives, sometimes by shooting, sometimes with bayonets, both to save ammo and to give the young rookies a little first-hand experience.

Let's see: the current U.S. population is around 330 million, give or take 10 or 20 million Mexican refugees. And a 1% or 2% casualty rate over a four month period would equal....