H.M.S. Rodney and her 16" guns, one of the stars of Sink The Bismarck.
Posted on 08/22/2008 5:10:44 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5
H.M.S. Rodney and her 16" guns, one of the stars of Sink The Bismarck.
Yep. Big guns. I didn’t think of that. I did a search for “Pirates of the Caribean” to see what they had but no luck.
I would love to see a remake of “Sink the Bismarck”.
Another favorite is “The Battle of Britain”.
Don’t know about a fifty round drum but the Pancor Jackhammer
(which had a brief appearance in Total Recall—the tunnel chase with the taxis on Mars) has a ten round drum and is full auto—unfortunately only a few prototypes were built iirc
Dogs Of War
Chistopher Walkens XM-19 revolving grenade launcher
to bad it was really the Manville Gas Gun
http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/1400/1466.htm
You’re right. It was the Atchison, and it’s a 20 rd drum.
Carrying around fifty rounds of 12 gauge would be a stone cold b*tch.
There’s lot of mexican fleamarkets around here. You might be able to find a Our Lady of Guadalupe grips for a Taurus 92.
There is one dealer that was selling Lexon clear grips but I don’t know the name of the manufacture.
I think our IDPA club would enjoy a Halloween Dress Up Day. I’m going to talk to some of the members and see if I can get it started.
Guys: not movire related, but check this out
http://secondpagemedia.com/confundo/index.php?topic=3141.msg38665
Who’s inventing that thing? The future founder of SkyNet?
Now that’s COOL!
My apologies for taking so long to return to this excellent discussion; I've been away from my computer most of the weekend. Before I jump back in, allow me to make two caveats...
First, after mentioning Cooper's challenge on Friday, I got to thinking about it, and went back to reread the original column. I dug through my stacks of Guns and Ammo mags and found it in his Thoughts From The Gunner's Guru in the June, 2004 issue. Cooper wrote:
"Do any of you marksmen think it possible for a man to place 20 shots in a 20-inch circle in 20 seconds (emphasis added to highlight my incorrect citation) at 1,000 yards? I posed this question to the range-masters down at Camp Pendleton many years ago and was told that such a thing was not possible. Obviously this challenge is very, very hard. I have tried it twice myself and conclude that while the task is not impossible, it is nearly so. Therefore, I am undertaking the proposal of a perpetual prize in the form of a grand gold cup or bowl to be awarded to anyone who can bring off this stunt - properly supervised, of course."
While I have the utmost respect for the late Jeff Cooper and his writings, I really don't think this will be feasible until a few leaps forward are made in firearms and/or optics technology; perhaps the development of a man-portable rail gun (a la Schwarzenegger's "Eraser") where the sheer velocity would virtually null out the effects of cross wind and bullet drop at 1K yards and in theory, recoil would not play much of a factor either. For the purposes of our discussion, I'd prefer to continue batting around the 1-minute challenge because I do think that it is possible, in the same way we've all recently learned that it's possible to win 8 golds in one Olympics. There aren't that many people out there who can do it, but just enough to prove that it's not impossible.
Having said that, I also want to be clear (if not already)that I'm making no implication or suggestion that I would be the one to do it. I have hit (and missed!) man-sized silhouettes at 1K meters, which is precisely why I know I would not be the one to accomplish it. I like to think I have an above average comprehension of the subject and love to discuss it, so if that makes me an "armchair sniper", so be it...IMHO, one need not be a NASCAR driver to intelligently discuss the respective merits of various car and driver combinations and speculate who may win which race on any given day, and I view this in much the same light.
Sig: Which of those scores are yours? Certainly those weapons and shooters are (demonstrably) capable of drilling some holes at long range; however, most if not all are bolt actions. One of my considerations in suggesting the WA2000 is that it is a semiautomatic .300 Win Mag and in attempting the 20/20"/60 challenge, one would want every edge they can get. I would think the standard box mag would need to be modified. The factory mag carries 6, with one in the chamber you could start with 7. After drying up the first mag, change #1 would only get you to 13. Change #2 would get you to 19, and you'd still have to get an extra round into the weapon somehow after that. If one could coax even just one more round out of the mag, you'd start with 8, change one would get you to 15, and the second change (after 15 rapid fire rounds of .300 Win Mag, albeit recoil dampened) would take you home. Of course a small 20 round drum, or "wraparound" something like the M1941 Johnson would make things a lot easier in an undertaking that can use all the "easy" you can get.
Wastedyears: You wrote, "Would something like 30.06 be a good cartridge in terms of as little recoil as possible, with giving as flat a trajectory as possible?"
For expediency, I may have over-simplified the variables involved in the problem and under-emphasized the human element in overcoming it. Although the ft/lbs of recoil generated by a given round in a given weapon can be calculated with scientific objectivity, it's effect on the shooter depends on the size of the shooter as well as his experience level, the "fit" of the rifle etc. Many people new to the shooting world (like the motorcycle world) will want to start out with something more powerful than they are capable of handling and if they are not entirely discouraged, will develop bad habits (i.e. flinching) which can be extremely hard to break.
With experience, shooters can "grow" into progressively harder kicking weapons; however, in my experience, when this is done, the .300 Win Mag represents the threshold caliber for the slightest framed, smaller shooters. That is, with experience, even a lightly framed, frail shooter can, with ample experience, grow accustomed to (or at least tolerant of) the recoil impulse of a .300 Win Mag (or others in it's class...the .308 Norma Mag, .300 H&H, etc.) They (the small framed shooter) will have difficulty ever growing comfortable with much more than that (again, this is just my personal experience). I should add here, that a lot of females fall into this category. Speaking in sweeping generalities, the type of female who becomes interested in shooting will tend to be the more athletic, active, in shape (skinnier) sort, and consequently fall in here with these being the largest calibers they will want to handle on a regular or semi-regular basis. My point here is, that if a shooter is capable of becoming comfortable with a .30-06, I'd be willing to bet they could grow accustomed to the .300 Win Mag with adequate range time. Having said that, an accurized Garand would probably be a decent platform with which to attempt the challenge.
Certainly a .30-06 can reach out to 1K yards. 1K yard kills by US and British snipers with M40 series and Enfield L96 sniper rifles are not unheard of, and they chamber the 7.62 x 51 NATO (.308 Winchester) which is essentially a shortened .30-06 case with with somewhat reduced performance compared to the '06. Typically though, these accomplishments are the classic "one shot, one kill" and are very deliberately ranged, spotted, and engaged, and are not a salvo of 20 rounds going downrange in 60 seconds or less. Likewise, these rifles are bolt actions and as stated above, anyone pursuing the "Cooper Challenge," would, IMHO, be silly not to avail themselves of any advantage they could get, and an accurized semi-auto would be more appropriate to the task. If one felt compelled to go with a lower recoiling caliber, the Springfield M25 Whitefeather would probably be up to the task...
Having said that, and with recoil still in mind, note that the .300 Win Mag Walther WA2000 weighs in at 16+ pounds, which soaks up a lot of recoil, and as a gas operated semi-auto, would inherently have less push-back than a bolt action in the same caliber. Furthermore, all other things being equal, a bullpup layout (in theory and in my experience) will manage recoil better than a conventional design as the recoil tends to be more straight line, and because the muzzle is much closer to the shooter, it can be brought back onto target much more rapidly.
Looking forward to both of your thoughts...
I wish some of those scores were mine. The best I’ve been able to manage off a bench was about 0.70, five shots at 100 yards, factory Remington .243. I worked with a couple of benchrest shooters, who introduced me to some other benchrest shooters, taught me some riflecraft, and taught me reloading.
It would take some kind of a rail gun to fire a 20 shot, minute of angle group at 1,000 yards, I think, only because the recovery from recoil takes time and not much time is allowed. But the rail gun isn’t marksmanship to me. It’s a machine that resets itself to the original point of aim. It’s like claiming to have shot a great group with a Ramsom Rest.
Now, what xmission posted in 108 is some ingenious stuff.
I want one. Actually, I want a half-dozen.
Unfortunately, I haven’t fired anything above .22LR, but I like some challenges and this maybe one I keep in mind.
In-line with the 20 shots in 20 seconds, maybe an SR-25 could do it, though every single round in the magazine would have to hit in the 20” circle. I’m sure you could start with one in the pipe to give yourself that one little extra bit of security in having enough rounds.
I’ve only worked the action on a Sigarms .22LR Trailblazer, and a Ruger 10/22; bolt-action would be new to me. Plus I’d have to figure out if I want a left-handed or right-handed bolt-action; if right-handed, in the prone position, I could get an extremely good rate of fire because my finger would be right there to squeeze the trigger, while my right hand works the bolt.
Of course, it’s something I would try first with a .22 at a relatively easy range, being able to use open sights, before moving up to a larger caliber and longer range.
Can anyone give me some help on the Aussie company that makes something called the “Steel Curtain”, “Iron Curtain” or something to that affect. Guys at work don’t believe me on the rate of fire those things produce.
Thanks
I’ll take a few myself.
Metalstorm, MrCalm
Metalstorm
Very cool technology for fun and pest control IMO !
http://www.paintballsentry.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxBa5bQfTGc
Beats my sprinkler scarecrow all to hell !
Thanks for the ping ......LOL !
Beats the heck out of my feeble attempts, using a radio-controlled model tank as *bait* to lure the cats into the range of one of these....
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