Posted on 07/28/2008 12:14:46 PM PDT by GatorGirl
Those fertile Duggars are expecting Baby #18! Wow!
Well Everyone sees that a bit differently. I paid the full freight for mine - $32k a year including room and board - because it was determined that I didn't "need" the money.
But getting away from you and me and going back to the couple with the incredible number of children, Basically colleges reward families who stint themselves nothing - go on extensive expensive vacations, etc. and punish those who live frugally. And as far as state schools go these are in part taxpayer supported, so that going to state schools is indeed getting a partial free ride from the taxpayers. So either 1. the kids don't go to college - great future there or 2. the parents pay the full cost - like I said nearly $3million which is possible, but I think unlikely or 3. the kids are indeed partially paid for by the rest of us
No flame, but rather thanks. I didn’t see the show - don’t have cable and don’t watch that much TV, but you confirmed what I suspected that in spite of the posters (I was going to use the word idiots but thought better of it) who insist that their quality of these kids’ childhood was just as good as anyone else’s I thought otherwise, and you have had the courage to post the truth as oppsoed to some obvious lies that other people have been posting.
OK.
Because of the hours and hours of footage aired of this family and because of the interviews given by members of this family. Remember that the reality show producers can show whatever footage they want and that footage of conflicts and disagreements makes good TV.
Other reality show families like the Hogans, the Osbournes, the Kardashians are legendary for both their on and off screen scandals and antics.
The Duggars are refreshingly free of such incidents or even rumors of such incidents.
And yet the population of the usa increases precipitously.
By magic? No, by massive immigration and by higher fertility among poor unwed mothers.
Massive immigration brings with it disputes, discontents and political and cultural instability. There is no free lunch.
Breeding is not much of an accomplishment .
Again, you contemptuously compare human beings with beasts. You clearly have some emotional problems that are as yet unresolved. What is it that so disgusts you with large families?
After all getting pregnant doesn't require any great intellectual activity, and it isn't physically difficult. so what's the great admiration for people who are simply demonstrating that their reproductive organs work?
The Duggars are not merely demonstrating their physical fertility.
They are demonstrating how the love of a Christian man and a Christian woman can, through hard work and perseverance, comfortably clothe and feed and house 18 children who excel in their studies, who are hard working and kind and curious and who love their siblings and parents unreservedly.
The Duggars are not merely a large family, they are a successful family, a learned family, a well-adjusted family, a loving family and a faithful family.
As such they are a reproach to those who say that accepting the children God gives them is an impossible burden.
Children - large numbers of them - are not a burden. The mentality that closes people off to having many children is a burden.
You clearly have some honesty issues that are as yet unresoved. Nothing disgusts me about large families per se. The disgusting part is people treating it like it is some sort of accomplishment. It isn't. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it isn't any great feat to get pregnant. All you have to do is screw at the right time and viola! - pregnant. And one of the other posters showed your comment about the reality tv showing how utopian their existence is to be a lie or at best a deliberate self deception of what was really going. It's a pretty poor childhood, when your parents delegate their responsibility for your siblings to you.
Again, you contemptuously compare human beings with beasts
When humans behave as rutting animals, then yes I compare them to beasts becaue their behavios is more of the unthinking beast than of the human being. Other than who pays for it what distingusihes these people from any welfare queen (except that they have more children) And, you never answered my first question Why do we need more families like this - loopy spacy mother constantly pregnant, children denied their childhood by being given the responsibilities of caring for their siblings - responsibilities that belong to the parents - while the irrresponsible adults simply couple and procreate?
Yet they are a "brood", a "litter", their parents are just "breeding" - your every comment oozes contempt and disdain.
And one of the other posters showed your comment about the reality tv showing how utopian their existence is
The show does not portray the Duggars' life as a utopia in the slightest, but as a regular life of ups and downs wherein the Duggars are confronted by some extraordinary logistic challenges but also helped by some extraordinary resources.
It's a pretty poor childhood, when your parents delegate their responsibility for your siblings to you.
What a bizarre statement. It is the most natural thing in the world for a younger child to look up to his older siblings and it is the most natural thing in the world for older siblings to want to look out for and help their younger siblings.
When humans behave as rutting animals, then yes I compare them to beasts becaue their behavios is more of the unthinking beast than of the human being.
And the mask is now completely off.
Other than who pays for it what distingusihes these people from any welfare queen (except that they have more children)
Let's define "welfare queen." Basically it means an unmarried woman with children - on average three - by multiple absent fathers who lives off the government.
In this case we have a married couple, not an unmarried single. In this case we have a single father, not multiple fathers. We have a present father, not an absent father. We have a family that earns its own living rather than lives off of government handouts.
This family is the oppposite of a welfare queen in every possible respect.
And, you never answered my first question Why do we need more families like this - loopy spacy mother constantly pregnant, children denied their childhood by being given the responsibilities of caring for their siblings - responsibilities that belong to the parents - while the irrresponsible adults simply couple and procreate?
(1) Michelle Duggar is neither "loppy" nor "spacy." She's a matter-of-fact, no-nonsense woman who is very grounded in the reality of managing a budget, a schoolroom and a household to a high degree of efficiency.
(2) Pregnancy is not a disease or an affliction. Being "constantly pregnant" is not a problem or a complaint.
(3) No children are being "denied their childhood." What is "a childhood"? Going to school, doing your chores, playing with your siblings and friends in the park or your backyard, playing sports etc. The Duggar children all do these things.
If by "childhood" you mean spending hours in front of the TV eating snacks and playing videogames by yourself then no, the Duggars don't do that.
(4) The parents do not simply "couple and procreate", they work hard all day to provide for their children's minds, bodies and souls.
(5) I absolutely answered your question in post 24. But I will reiterate why we need more families like the Duggars:
(A) America need families with American values like faith, family, hard work, enterprise and compassion - families that replace themselves ensuring the continuity of American values, and even better families that enlarge themselves to spread the influence of those American values.
(B) America needs families like this to express a bold confidence in the American future - people with children have a compelling interest to work for the continuance of American prosperity, integrity and power so their children can enjoy it. They are stakeholders in posterity.
"I tried to do it myself but they were too slippery. I couldn't get the damn knot tight enough."
"I know something about the kind of people that ask me that question....they're the jealous kind. They know I'm getting me some."
Of course, there's nothing wrong with the old MYOB. Succinct. Forthright.
Liar. read post 86. And any "extraordinary challengens" were brought on by their own behavior
It is the most natural thing in the world for a younger child to look up to his older siblings and it is the most natural thing in the world for older siblings to want to look out for and help their younger siblings
It is not the most natural thing in the world for girls of 16 to have nothing but the chores of washing and caring for their younger siblings. with every word you post you show just how dishonest you are. Or maybe you belong to some sort of cult where this sort of thing is natural. You certaintly sound like it. and I reiterate When humans behave as rutting animals, then yes I compare them to beasts becaue their behavior is more of the unthinking beast than of the human being. Your attempt to blow pink smoke notwithstanding, these people are behaving like mice.
This family is the oppposite of a welfare queen in every possible respect.
They are very similar to welfare queens in all respects except two they supposedly pay their own way, and they have a lot more children than your average welfare queen.
The Duggar children all do these things.
The Duggar children all do these things.
ANd yet I don't think that childhood encompasses doing
from post 86 Run a small laundromat day after day of their teen years...no. Sorry...but Jinger (Jinger?) looked 14 going on 40; she was decribing in great detail her laundry process and it was sad. Depressing. She was thrilled to have front loaders (in her early teens!).I'd say this isn't much of a childhood
America need families with American values like faith, family, hard work, enterprise and compassion - families that replace themselves ensuring the continuity of American values
Yep and there are plenty of them that don't have the wife continuously pregnant, so other than the celebration of fertile sex, these people have nothing that millions of others don't have, yet you seem to think there is something special about them. Well you have shown yourself repeatedly to be dishonest, so there is no point in continuing this discussion anyway. Maybe you should go and get pregnant so you can be more like your ideal.
Oh I can't resist
America needs families like this to express a bold confidence in the American future - people with children have a compelling interest to work for the continuance of American prosperity, integrity and power so their children can enjoy it. They are stakeholders in posterity.
What a bombastic load of BS - worthy of an Obama speechwriter.
Here?
Yes, it is. Very much.
‘Hmmm scholarship as a greatly abused word these days and doesn’t mean what it did a generation ago. Almost all “scholarships” are based on “need” these days. In fact I know that every so-called scholarship at my old undergraduate institution is based on “need.” Which enables me to torment the people who call every month asking for money when they ask for it for scholarships. But back to the main subject: Tell me were these monetary grants based on need or on demonstrated intellectual/athletic ability’
their grades, actually.
I am the one who used the term 'spacey.' Its is just my impression of her from watching the show. No-nonsense, maybe...but she speaks in a soft, sing-songy monotone with (from the shows I saw) no real display of any emotion...just the constant monotone speech...again, I say the camera captures the scenes, nuances included.
I was also the one who was stunned by the laundry issues and how they were presented on the show. Cutesy, funny yes...the line of state of the art front loaders (did Maytag donate them? I know there were 'tie-ins' to the commercial sponsors--just like on Extreme Makeover.) with laundry going full force in them was funny...but seeing a young teen girl talk about how happy she was to get multiple machines; and how much laundry she 'does' every day was sad to me. Again, the camera captures (in a reality setting) the little things that may seem so normal to the family (mom and dad have final edit calls?) but seem so heart wrenching to an outsider. The Duggars may think that having one or two of their girls being full time laundresses is wonderful and their assigned task...but I think its a depressing teenhood.
I have a sorta big family (five kids) and I never once delegated all laundry to anyone. Nor did I delegate all cooking (the show I mentioned w/the visit to the other large family). The teenage girls were comparing cooking for 'their' families...(and the other mom was as monotone, and spacey as Michelle...again, the camera 'gets it'). Do I think as a mom of five that kids need to clean their rooms; do their laundry (when old enough); start a meal (the older ones if they are home first...or just want to make their specialty that day)...YES!!! But I don't think that all laundry, cooking, cleaning, etc. should be delegated to the kids (along w/the mentoring/schooling of a younger sibling...there was mentioned on the show--numerous times--that an older one 'gets' assigned a younger sibling.) From what I saw...the family 'works' so well because the kids (particularly the girls) work 24/7. Again, I have no issues with the family...they seem very nice...but they have marketed themselves (the TV shows; the website) so when they swing open the doors of the home (which was helped finance by the TV revenue--remember they finished construction during the first one or two episodes) they kinda have to expect some criticism of their families lifestyle...and for me, the criticism falls (as a mom of a larger family myself) on the issue of the kids (girls in particular) doing all the household work (in lieu of average teen girl activities--maybe play on a sports team; be in a dance class; etc). The show never presented outside activities...no sports; no Scouts; no Youth Group. It was kind of sad (to me) that they didn't have outside activities.
Again...my asbestos is on. :)
Can you imagine....18....faint.
How did I fall off the FREERIDER pinglist?
Hi JRBC (PaMom waves towards the Jersey shore)...long time no see (I’ve been away for awhile)!
They have 17 kids already...How the heck do they find the time & energy to work on producing #18?
Please add me when you get the chance...I'll check back on this thread later...I find it fascinating (the 'want' of the image of the ideal family vs. what the camera trully catches).
Well, if you want to get technical about it, 18 children from the same parents consume less resources than 18 children from 18 different sets of parents - between stuff like hand-me-downs, the fact that food is cheaper in bulk, there’s more motivation to cook for multiple people (ie, if I’m just getting my own dinner, I’ll use an easy mac cup, but if it’s for my roommates as well, I’ll make mac and cheese from scratch - we also have a small fridge and no room for leftovers, but that’s getting off-topic), etc.
I don’t really agree with this, unless the parents can do it without depending on others’ money, and without making the older siblings care for, or otherwise be responsible for, the younger siblings against their wishes. When I was younger, my parents made promised me that they would not expect me to be a free babysitting service or chaperone or whatever, because they were the ones who decided to have my siblings, not me, and therefore my siblings were their responsibility. Now, I love my siblings, and I’ve offered to do things for them like let them crash at my apartment if it’s too late for them to drive back home, or take them to a midnight book release party, but I also appreciate that I can say “No, I don’t want to be responsible for my sister at this concert, there’s too much potential for something bad to happen”.
Hey, I'm a charter member of that list. ;-)
You do know the origin, right?
Interesting glimpse here into your faculties of reasoning.
The poster in post 86 expressed an opinion based on their viewing of the show. I have a different opinion from my viewing of the show.
Having a different opinion makes me a liar? Explain the "reasoning", such as it might be, behind such a silly outburst.
And any "extraordinary challengens" were brought on by their own behavior
As were the extraordinary resources I mentioned.
It is not the most natural thing in the world for girls of 16 to have nothing but the chores of washing and caring for their younger siblings.
It wouldn't be natural to "have nothing but" such chores. But she has much more in her life than just her chores.
with every word you post you show just how dishonest you are.
Wow, you're taking my audacity in disagreeing with your half-baked "arguments" extremely personally. I've given you nothing but my honest opinion.
Or maybe you belong to some sort of cult where this sort of thing is natural. You certaintly sound like it
You may have heard of my religion, actually. It's called Catholicism. We've barely got a billion and a quarter members now - but we're growing!
I reiterate When humans behave as rutting animals, then yes I compare them to beasts becaue their behavior is more of the unthinking beast than of the human being. Your attempt to blow pink smoke notwithstanding, these people are behaving like mice.
Interesting analysis - exercising human faculties is inhuman! Presumably your highest ideal of humanity is the homosexual who cruises bars every evening for purely anonymous sexual encounters.
After all, he is the exact opposite of the Duggars. He does not "breed" at all and there is no chance of him ever doing the unthinkable and conceiving a child. For him, sex is purely a form of recreation and completely divorced from the animal practice of procreation.
They are very similar to welfare queens in all respects
You've said this twice now, even though your error has been pointed out to you quite explicitly.
To sum up:
(1) Welfare queens are not married. The Duggars are married.
(2) The children of welfare queens typically have multiple fathers. The Duggars have one father.
(3) The children of welfare queens generally do not know their father or have minimal contact with him. The Duggars know their father well, live with him and spend time with him every day.
(4) Welfare queens have children solely in the expectation that the child will yield them government checks. The Duggars have their children because they want them as an end in themselves, not as means to a handout.
(5) Welfare queens sit around the house all day living off government checks and sending their children to government-sponsored daycare or government schools. Their children are generally undernourished and poorly educated and live in filthy apartments. The Duggars work hard for a living, take an active interest in all aspects of their children's education, feed them healthy meals and keep a nice, sanitary house.
(6) As you admit, welfare queens generally have just enough children to max out their government benefits and no more. The Duggars, not caring about government handouts, have as many children as the Lord blesses them with.
In other words, the Duggars are the diametric opposite of welfare queens in every conceivable way.
I'd say this isn't much of a childhood
Perhaps you grew up in mansion and have a skewed notion of what a "childhood" is. When I was a child, my father worked two jobs to support the family and my mother quit her job as a hospital administrator and stayed home. From a young age (12) I worked after school every day in a local pharmacy and delivered papers in the morning (since I was 10), and when I came home I washed dishes, took out the garbage and did odd jobs around the house.
One of my sisters did the laundry, which my mom folded and ironed after cooking dinner and cleaning the house.
I commuted to high school, so I got up at 6 and delivered my papers, got on the train at 7, went to school from 8-3, did an hour of afterschool activities (mostly sports), got home at 5 and worked in the pharmacy until dinner. I had dinner with my family, did the dishes, took out the garbage and then did my homework before I went to sleep. My childhood was very busy, but I saved a lot of college money, had some good times with my friends and family, and got a first-class course in life.
By your standards I probably didn't have a childhood either. But I have nothing but fond memories of my teenage years.
other than the celebration of fertile sex, these people have nothing that millions of others don't have
As I've explained several times, having a large family is about more than sex. You haven't addressed any of those points directly - because it would be devastating to your position if you were to do so.
Well you have shown yourself repeatedly to be dishonest, so there is no point in continuing this discussion anyway. Maybe you should go and get pregnant so you can be more like your ideal.
Again, you seem to take my exposure of the bankruptcy of your arguments very much to heart. A lot of personal invective, not much analysis.
What a bombastic load of BS - worthy of an Obama speechwriter.
Obama's rhetoric is largely about the glorification of the self and the future he speaks of is one of an amorphous world environmentalist community. Obama, also, shares your horror of large families - hence his tireless and consistent campaigning on behalf of Planned Parenthood, partial birth abortion and even infanticide.
BLONDE MOMENT # 785,994,872 has just occurred.
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