Big change for welfarist Sweden: School choice

The Washington Post ^ | Saturday, July 26, 2008 | MALIN RISING

[Amelia]

It's an AP article so I can't excerpt, just summarize.

Sweden generally has a system of government schools with a national curriculum, but for the past 16 years has also allowed "independent" private schools, which are government funded, cannot charge tuition, but can choose their own teaching methods.

Some comparison to vouchers in our country, discussion of methods schools use to attract students, and some of the differences between private and public schools there.

[Amelia]

Apparently the private schools get the same funding as the public schools, but if they can operate more efficiently they get to keep the profits. I didn't see what the per-pupil cost was or how it compares with costs in the U.S.

[Amelia]

Public Education Ping

This list is for intellectual discussion of articles and issues related to public education (including charter schools) from the preschool to university level. Items more appropriately placed on the “Naughty Teacher” list, “Another reason to Homeschool” list, or of a general public-school-bashing nature will not be pinged. If you would like to be on or off this list, please freepmail Amelia, Gabz, Shag377, or SoftballMominVa

[Fishrrman]

I sense this is an attempt by native Swedes to create a politically-correct escape route to get their children away from the growing Muslim population in that country, particularly in some urban areas.

- John

[torquinus]

The elementary schools (grades 1-8) are beyond appalling, both public and private. They lack formal curriculum and the students do not receive grades. As a consequence the math and reading skills are at least 2 to 3 grades below those of comparative students in the U.S. This is my own personal observation having a son in Swedish schools and nieces and nephews in public schools in the U.S.

[Amelia]

This is my own personal observation having a son in Swedish schools and nieces and nephews in public schools in the U.S.

Are the private schools required to follow the national curriculum, or are they allowed to choose their own?

Also, what do the private schools cut to reduce expenses and make a profit?

[Amelia]

I sense this is an attempt by native Swedes to create a politically-correct escape route to get their children away from the growing Muslim population in that country, particularly in some urban areas.

That's a possibility.

I thought the article had some interesting points, but on a number of issues I'd have liked to have seen more details....

[wintertime]

ping

[traviskicks]

bookarmk

[4Liberty]

Very good!

[TruthConquers]

So, on the whole, Swedish education is dumbing down Swedes MORE than the government indoctrination schools of the US?

[Amelia]

Here is a link to a fact sheet from the Swedish government summarizing their educational system.

From this link (and also results of the PIRLS and PISA tests) it appears that Swedish students perform better than students in the United States on international comparisons, although in some areas the differences are not significant.

[narses]

+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

[Amelia]

I have a question for FReepers interested in educational issues, particularly those vehemently opposed to the current government school system...

Since the private schools in Sweden are also government funded, at the same rate as public schools, having school choice there does not reduce education taxes.

Would such a system be acceptable in the U.S. since it does offer educational choices, or would it not be because the government continues to be involved in funding education?

How is it different from our current system of charter schools?

I'm interested in hearing some thoughts....

[Gabz]

Would such a system be acceptable in the U.S. since it does offer educational choices, or would it not be because the government continues to be involved in funding education?

That is my biggest concern, and as you know I am not one of those vehemently opposed to our current system. It the government is going to "fund" it, the government is eventually going to seek total control of it.

How is it different from our current system of charter schools?

Probably not much different, except is the instances where those seeking to start up the charters have to come up with the funds to begin the schools before they can get any of the state funding.

[SoftballMominVA]

I have some questions about the Swedish school system that you or maybe someone else can answer

I understand that the money follows the student so that they are free to choose their school, but what kind of schools may they choose? If my child wanted to attend a school wrapped around music, to the detriment of other subjects, could she do that? Do they fund Christian, Catholic, Buddist, or Muslim schools? For a school to receive government funds does it have to be certified by the Swedish government in some way? Do schools have to keep scores at a certain level to maintain this certification?

So many questions for this issue. It ***SOUNDS*** like a good system, on paper - but as always the devil is in the details.

[SoftballMominVA]

It the government is going to "fund" it, the government is eventually going to seek total control of it...

Which is why I am very wary of vouchers. There SHOULD be private schools that operate outside of the public school system. These schools should maintain complete autonomy. If they want to teach religion from Catholic to Muslim to Baptist to Wiccan, they should be able to. But as soon as Uncle Sam places any tax money into the school via public funding, the good Uncle is going to want to strip that school of what makes it special.

[Gabz]

You and I are definitely on the same page here.

Once the government, at any level, starts providing funds all bets are off in regard to autonomy. Heck, it’s getting to the point where government doesn’t even have to provide funds and autonomy is still a moot point (see all the nanny state threads.)

[wintertime]

Would such a system be acceptable in the U.S. since it does offer educational choices, or would it not be because the government continues to be involved in funding education?

I favor anything that increases choice for parents and encourages the development of a free market in education.

How is it different from our current system of charter schools?

The article did not discuss whether or not any of the private schools were religious. Charter schools in the U.S. are Secular Humanist.

[wintertime]

It the government is going to "fund" it, the government is eventually going to seek total control of it.

Given you reasoning, we should immediately cease all Pell Grants and student loans for college students.

[Aquinasfan]

Since the private schools in Sweden are also government funded, at the same rate as public schools, having school choice there does not reduce education taxes. Would such a system be acceptable in the U.S. since it does offer educational choices, or would it not be because the government continues to be involved in funding education?

What do you mean by "acceptable in the US"? Are you wondering whether the public will accept it, or whether it would survive constitutional scrutiny? I'd answer both questions in the affirmative. (The stumbling block for voucher legislation is always teacher union-funded ad campaigns.)

How is it different from our current system of charter schools?

It's different in that it allows a school to keep any profit it makes (although US charter schools simply hide their profits in salaries, etc.) It would also be different if it allowed religion to be taught in the schools. As far as I'm concerned, US gov't schools violate the "free exercise" clause of the Constitution.