6 charged in attack on dad protecting daughter at Valleyfair (Thuggery in Minnesota)

Minneapolis StarTribune (aka The Red Star) ^ | 7/15/08 | Abby Simmons - Staff Reporter

[MplsSteve]

The father of a 12-year-old girl who tried to keep a young man from groping his daughter at a popular Shakopee amusement park was seriously hurt late on July 4 after he was allegedly kicked and stomped by a group of men in an attack police called "brutal."

The attack on the unnamed man, which happened just outside Valleyfair Amusement Park, resulted in charges against at least six Twin Cities-area men. They were among several people the initial attacker called on his cell phone to summon them to join the assault.

The group beat up the father as his wife and daughter looked on, police said. The man was seriously injured and unconscious when police arrived.

"We see assaults, but that's brutal," Shakopee police Sgt. Jay Arras said.

Arras said the man and his family were leaving Valleyfair shortly before midnight on July 4 when a man "tried to grab the 12-year-old girl in a sexual manner" near the park exit, the father later told police.

[Sopater]

According to this article, the wife and "other female relatives" (probably his daughters) tried to help. On a radio show this morning, I heard a woman that said she attended ValleyFair and witnessed three other fights, and when she tried to call to complain they told her that there were 15 fights reported that night. She said that she left with her kids scared and crying.

[Transformers]

This is what America has become. Infested with section 8 types and gangstas who breed like rabbits on viagra. The government is more concerned about some pencil neck white geek who practices Mormonism 1800’s style than they are about cleaning up our cities.

Due to demographic and educational trends I really don’t see any hope for America. There isn’t going to be a magical revival where 1 million gangsters, millions of wannabes, Code Pink, 40 million illegals, Fundamentalist Muzzies, LaRAZA, Mecha, LULAC, CAIR, Moveon.org people all join hands and walk off into the sunset with us. It just isn’t going to happen.

It’s time to fall back and re-group.

[militant2]

“Now, could there POSSIBLY be any other recourse for decent people other than beating our chests on a message board?”

The answer is “Yes....shoot the bastards!”

You seem to be the one that can’t get the “simple point”.

Militant

[The Toll]

Again, I am all for shooting them! It’s just not actually happening at the speed that is needed. I hope you could agree to that at least.
I have heard of some countries that have created a system. Something like a state agency of some sort. What they do is collect taxes form the population and create these agencies. When criminals behave in this manner the members of these agnecies have badges and they remove these criminals from the population. Sometimes they put them in cages and sometimes they actually execute them, depending on the severity of the crime.
It think that is something we should consider doing in the U.S.

[Travis McGee]

When armed citizens do shoot violent criminals, it has a big effect on the other local perps. It chills them out. That does help your 16 year old at the mall: the knowledge by would-be violent criminals that they might get shot by that 50 year old guy across the kiosk when they pull a knife.

So yes, your 16 year old son does benefit from the “Charles Bronsons” actions.

[Travis McGee]

Amen.

[The Toll]

True enough, however I simply prefer to consider other options as well. I am pro kill bad guy! I can’t say that enough.
My point is that I don’t care to live in South Africa, it would be nice if we could hold these prosecutors accountable.
I think that may be more constructive than just saying “I would of shot’em!” on a mesage board.

[militant2]

Here is why I keep harping about the issue. I play a little bit of devil's advocate sometimes to put the exclamation point in place.

Of course the best resolution to the problem is to have an agency or system of sorts that have weapons and badges that would “remove these criminals from the population”. Right now, it seems that the available agencies that exist to protect and defend will treat racially charged situations with denial, delusion and cover-up of the facts. It's human nature for them to respond this way when they know that doing it differently will result in punishment, possibly loss of job and being labeled as racist.

Politicians will reinforce and even order the “hands-off” approach for the same reasons and, in addition, to pander to the minority population for the purpose of garnering votes. It's a broken system!

Fixing it takes at least two tiers of action, in my opinion. First is a clear message from the people that we're not going to stand by and be victims anymore. But words are cheap.....as has been stated several other times on this forum, sometimes the loudest message comes with a bang....and gives the homies (or whomever) cause to think twice next time.

Secondly comes policy change. What happened recently with the SCOTUS on the second amendment may well give way to expanded carry, therefore more self-defense shootings, therefore more attention by our “public servants” of the issue....you get the progression.

This is a call for action to deviate from “business as usual”, which currently is the passive acceptance that stuff happens and if we're lucky, the police will protect us. Maybe they'll be in on the homicide investigation. I'm not willing to let it get to that point, at least in my little part of the world, and if I have any say about it.

It's a change of culture and mindset.

I think you're on the right track....

Militant

[Clemenza]

You ban rentals, have strict limits on home occupancy, have school systems miticulous about tracking down kids who live outside the district. We don't do "countywide districts" with bussing up here either.

All this has the effect of segregating our underclass in places like Trenton, Newark, Camden, etc., where all county/state social services are centered, and where there are plenty of rentals/section 8 housing.

[CurlyDave]

Why is it so complicated to get a simple point across on this board?

You are the one who is missing the point.

Ok, fine you would have been mister super hero that would have blasted all of the bad guys.

I made it very clear that I would not have "blasted" all the bad guys. But I also wouldn't let them rough me up and almost kill me either. That is the power of concealed carry. 99% of the time, you pull out the gun, prepared to use it, and you don't have to use it. Just having it available is good enough.

On the other hand it does absolutely nothing for everyone to chime in about what a ninja they are when my 16 year old goes to the mall!

You might think that, but my reality is that if I see 6 or 7 taking on one kid, what I do depends on whether I am armed. If I am armed, I stop the fight, before the one kid gets badly hurt. If I am not armed, I protect my own safety first & call 911 on my cell phone. This may or may not do anything for your kid.

Now, could there POSSIBLY be any other recourse for decent people other than beating our chests on a message board?

You might not like this, but it is your responsibility to be part of the solution, not part of the hide your head in the sand and hope it goes away problem. You need to fill out the application, take the test and learn to carry.

[CurlyDave]

Why is it so complicated to get a simple point across on this board?

You are the one who is missing the point.

Ok, fine you would have been mister super hero that would have blasted all of the bad guys.

I made it very clear that I would not have "blasted" all the bad guys. But I also wouldn't let them rough me up and almost kill me either. That is the power of concealed carry. 99% of the time, you pull out the gun, prepared to use it, and you don't have to use it. Just having it available is good enough.

On the other hand it does absolutely nothing for everyone to chime in about what a ninja they are when my 16 year old goes to the mall!

You might think that, but my reality is that if I see 6 or 7 taking on one kid, what I do depends on whether I am armed. If I am armed, I stop the fight, before the one kid gets badly hurt. If I am not armed, I protect my own safety first & call 911 on my cell phone. This may or may not do anything for your kid.

Now, could there POSSIBLY be any other recourse for decent people other than beating our chests on a message board?

You might not like this, but it is your responsibility to be part of the solution, not part of the hide your head in the sand and hope it goes away problem. You need to fill out the application, take the test and learn to carry.

[El Gato]

Or, if it was in a purse or fanny pack or something, you’d have to leave them on the platform while you rode, ... Of course, you could lock your gun in a locker while you went on the rides, but that would entirely defeat the purpose of bringing it in the first place.

With a fanny pack, you'd just move it around to your front, unless you've got belly like mine, in which case you might not fit on the ride in the first place. Or for various reasons you might not want to go on those rides, or you could have someone else in the party hold the purse/fanny pack while you go on the ride, and they you hold their "stuff" while they go on the ride. That's a common enough thing to do anyway, gun or no gun.

But this guy may not have been going on the more violent rides anyway. I didn't the last few times I went to such places (Sea World, San Antonio and Six Flags-Arlington Texas)due to being too big, and having a bad back on top of that. I still can go on some rides, and at Sea World I really go for the shows.

In a rational world, the park might provide a secure storage facility if they are going to ban or restrict concealed carry, or even if they aren't. Most of the worst incidents, such as this one, happen *outside* the gate. In the parking lot or on the way to it.

[El Gato]

I don't really care a whole lot about the signage laws. Unless there are metal detectors, all they can do is ask you to leave, if they see your weapon.

That varies from state to state. In Texas, if they have the proper signage, and you get caught carrying there, you've committed a crime.

But most of them are too chickenshiite to post the humongous sign that is required. In fact many places which posted at first after the CHL law went into effect no longer do. Most of them in fact. (Not counting places off limits by law)

[El Gato]

But the problem is even if you defend yourself lawfully, well what are going to do when the jury is stacked with section 8’s and gangsta moms?

If it's a rightous shoot, it generally never gets the petite jury, the grand jury generally returns a "no bill". But even if it does get to the petite jury (trial jury) in a criminal trial, Texas juries, even in Houston and Dallas-Ft.Worth have not shown much sympathy for the thugs. After all, the thugs terrorize the people in their own neighborhoods even more than those in nearby neighborhoods.

[El Gato]

Monday that doctors were waiting for the man's swelling to subside before checking for permanent injuries, which could justify more serious charges.

What difference does the seriousness of the injuries make (assuming he doesn't die from them). Assault is asault, it's the seriousness of the intent, not of the result, that counts.

The couple was nearing the exit gate with their three daughters at about midnight on July 4, when two young men approached and slapped the youngest girl, about 12, on her buttocks. Her father yelled at the men, one of whom pulled out a cell phone and called for others to join in on the assault.

That makes it premeditated. I wouldn't be letting them out on bail. They are a danger to the community and flight risks. But some judge...

Bail was set at $40,000 to $60,000 each and all the suspects posted bail bonds, a jail official said.

That's a minuscule bail for such an offense, for guys who are obviously a danger to the community, and flight risks. Although one wonders were they got, or intend to get, the 4,000 to 6,000 dollars for the bondsman?

[ButThreeLeftsDo]

Yep...We’re all scratching our heads up here over the way that this is being handled by the courts...

[Explodo]

BTW, look up

Evans FAmily Prostitution Ring

The Evans family recruited child prostitutes from this park...they got caught...

http://www.friends-partners.org/lists/stop-traffic/1999/0758.html

2 of the men in this attack were part of the above action...they served less than 3 years after appeal.

So where did they get the money to make bail? From the proceeds of abducting children and selling them to pervs.

[Hyzenthlay]

Ah, that makes sense... I’m thinking of rides more like the coasters at Cedar Point, where whatever is holding you in would not leave much room for a fanny pack. I’m the kind of person who goes to an amusement park and makes a beeline for the biggest, twistiest rollercoaster there. At that rate, I suppose you could store your weapon in a locker, but there are also armed guards all over the place if things get rough, so I’d just not bother bringing it (there at least) in the first place.

[El Gato]

At that rate, I suppose you could store your weapon in a locker, but there are also armed guards all over the place if things get rough, so I’d just not bother bringing it (there at least) in the first place.

Armed Guards at an Amusement park? Some places I suppose. But generally inside the park, with at best a roving "mounted" (golf cart or similar) patrol of the parking lots and walkways.

This incident happened *outside* the gate. That's the problem with gun free zones, you are often forced to be "gun free" for quite some distance or time before you can once again be armed.

For example. If an employer does not allow weapons on their property, not even in private vehicles, then employees are disarmed not just on the property, but on the way to and from work as well. That might be a minor inconvenience, or a major problem. Depending on the nature, distance and location, of ones commute.

[tuckrdout]

But, I am surprised the groper wasn't carrying as well.

I wonder if our social experiments with society, aren't working? I wonder if it is better for mom to stay home and raise the kids, and parents to “stay together” for the kids? I wonder if it was a better world when the Bible was read in school, and the day started with a prayer?

I wonder if the world has gotten worse, since killing babies became a personal ‘choice’. If killing your own flesh and blood, because they are not convenient, because your selfish needs are the most important; why would it be wrong to act selfishly towards other people you are not even related to? Could it be that abortion, and the mind set it takes to support it, actually dehumanizes all human beings?