Posted on 07/06/2008 4:36:14 PM PDT by 21stCenturyFreeThinker
I've never posted a vanity before but I couldn't think of another place to post this. It seems like it should be an important part of the Obama birth certificate discussion.
Anyway, I got to wondering what would happen if Obama were to win the election in November but then be found to be ineligible for the office. Timing would make a huge difference in the outcome.
The possibilities I see are:
1) He is exposed after the electoral college votes but before taking office. The 20th amendment says the VP elect gets it.2) He is exposed after taking office. The VP assumes the office under the usual rules of succession.
3) He is exposed between the election and the time the electoral college votes. In this case the electors pledged to Obama would be free to elect another candidate. Not necessarily one who actually ran for president.
Scenario 3 would open the way the way for a much more radical candidate to assume the presidency and would make the election of 2000 look like a cakewalk. A scary result for sure but it doesn't look like it would pose any Constitutional problems. That's the way the electoral college is designed. I don't see anything for the courts to do in such a case. The choice of the electors would take office.
The whole subject of the electoral college is relevant here. Remember the November election is just to choose the electors for each state. The electors are the ones who actually vote for president and are at best loosely bound to their candidate. Each party chooses who the electors are in case they win. You can bet they are almost all enthusiastic supporters of their respective candidates.
For some background see this discussion of faithless electors. on Wikipedia. There is some discussion of Scenario 3 in there.
I'm not a constitutional scholar so maybe I'm wrong. Any thoughts?
There is someone who is pursuing this: go to
www.mitchell-langbert.blogspot.com
he has sent 2 letters to appropriate officials in
Hawaii regarding a copy of BHO’s birth certificate.
Only last Sunday, though, no apparent response yet.
Blah, blah, blah. If this...but that...maybe something else.
If you believe that Obama is not a US citizen, call your senator because he lacks the qualifications to run for office. I offered to chip in the first $100 to pay the bill. The offer still stands.
Personally, I think the lot of you have Dan Ratheritis. Salve it.
"On Feb. 2, 1961, several months after they met, Obama's parents got married in Maui, according to divorce records. It was a Thursday. At that point, Ann was three months pregnant with Barack Obama II. Friends did not learn of the wedding until afterward. "Nobody was invited," says Abercrombie. The motivations behind the marriage remain a mystery, even to Obama. "I never probed my mother about the details. Did they decide to get married because she was already pregnant? Or did he propose to her in the traditional, formal way?" Obama wonders. "I suppose, had she not passed away, I would have asked more."
http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1729524,00.html
Obama mysteries abound....
Please, people, come back to earth. This Obama birth certificate "controversy" is crazy. His mother's an American, ipso facto, he's an American. Read this from a reliable source if you're still willing to be hoodwinked.I tend to think he is a natural born citizen. I just got to wondering what would happen if he wasn't.
My post is really more about the electoral college than the birth certificate. It leaves us vulnerable to some strange results. Even stranger than winning the election but losing the popular vote.
The reason his credentials are hard to challenge is that he is not really on a federal ballot until December. He's not really even on a state ballot either, the electors are.
I should mention his letters are in the archive of June this year. June 29th to be exact.
The question is who has the authority here. The way I read the Constitution it would be a Democratic Congress who probably wouldn't let a bill of impeachment out of a committee.
I'm not sure the Supreme Court could do anything.
Scenario 7 or 8). The Dems by refusing to impeach Obama who is clear violation of the US Constituion, and who perpetrated fraud against the US public, or did not impeach Obama in a timely manner, the 2010 mid-term elections are a disaster for the Dems that swings Congress back to the Republicans.
What I do know about politicians, especially Democrats, is that they always look out for number 1. If the political winds change in which they are in danger of losing, they will throw Obama under the bus.
FReeper(s) have reported that Hawiian newspaper birth announcements were look at under the names of Dunham, Obama, and nothing - zilch.
How so? If a case at law in a matter of the application of the federal Constitution requires information that one of the several states is holding to resolve an issue, how would it be judicial activism to require the state to produce the evidence at issue? It would not overturn Hawaii’s statute, only compel the state to allow an officer of the federal court to see public records relevant to the case.
Section 3 of the 20th Amendment says if the President-elect has "failed to qualify", then the Vice President-elect becomes Acting President until there's a President who is "qualified".The 20th amendment only applies to the period after the electors vote and when the President Elect is to take office.
Constitutionally he's not really the President Elect until after the electors have voted sometime in December.
Do you think the Obama Electors would vote for anyone else? They'd vote for Obama and then let him fight it out.
Each state could make a separate decision. But it could be argued that a vote for an ineligible candidate is null and void. this could give the state’s electoral votes to the runner up.
If that happens. than I predict an uncivil Civil War. (a real Civil War this time.)
Do you think the Obama Electors would vote for anyone else? They'd vote for Obama and then let him fight it out.If he were to withdraw or be found ineligible they would vote for someone else of their choosing. They are only loosely bound. It seems like every election some elector votes for someone other than the candidate they are pledged to. See the article on faithless electors for a list of them.
The outcome would be a matter of politics and not law.
The Democrats couldn’t care less about anything, except gaining power. There’s no way they let Obama not become President if he won the Electoral Vote. The Supreme Court would have to rule that he “failed to qualify” and then the military would have to enforce that ruling.
In the general election the challenge would have to be to the eligibility of the elector and not to the eligibility of the candidate they are loosely pledged to support.
The time for the Secretaries of State to challenge the candidate's qualifications was in the primaries when their names were officially on the ballot.
See Article II, Section 1, the 12th Amendment and this short note about the electoral college for more information.
If the Electors could not vote for an ineligible candidate, what’s the purpose of the “failed to qualify” provision in Section 3 of the 20th Amendment? How would Obama’s ineligibility affect the eligibility of any Elector?
"On Feb. 2, 1961, several months after they met, Obama's parents got married in Maui, according to divorce records. It was a Thursday. At that point, Ann was three months pregnant with Barack Obama II. Friends did not learn of the wedding until afterward.
This is easily resolved. No birth record and irregularities in marriage could only mean Barry IS the Messiah!
It also implies the Good Lord is black. :)
If the Electors could not vote for an ineligible candidate, what’s the purpose of the “failed to qualify” provision in Section 3 of the 20th Amendment? How would Obama’s ineligibility affect the eligibility of any Elector?That's the case where the electoral college has voted but the President hasn't taken office yet. The line is clear as mud to me. It doesn't say how a candidate qualifies at that point. Maybe they were thinking about waiting for his birthday. lol3. If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.
It only seems to give Congress power to deal with the situation if both the president elect and VP elect are ineligible. I'd guess we'd have an acting president for four years.
And who decides the candidate is ineligible? Could the Supreme Court remove the President elect or a sitting president if judged to be ineligible? Who knows.
“4) He refuses to resign as president, and consequently, is impeached and removed from office. His VP assumes the presidency.”
Won’t happen. It would progress more like this:
4a. He refuses to resign as president.
The overwhelmingly democratic congress refuses to impeach him.
Then what?
- John
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