Posted on 07/06/2008 4:36:14 PM PDT by 21stCenturyFreeThinker
I've never posted a vanity before but I couldn't think of another place to post this. It seems like it should be an important part of the Obama birth certificate discussion.
Anyway, I got to wondering what would happen if Obama were to win the election in November but then be found to be ineligible for the office. Timing would make a huge difference in the outcome.
The possibilities I see are:
1) He is exposed after the electoral college votes but before taking office. The 20th amendment says the VP elect gets it.2) He is exposed after taking office. The VP assumes the office under the usual rules of succession.
3) He is exposed between the election and the time the electoral college votes. In this case the electors pledged to Obama would be free to elect another candidate. Not necessarily one who actually ran for president.
Scenario 3 would open the way the way for a much more radical candidate to assume the presidency and would make the election of 2000 look like a cakewalk. A scary result for sure but it doesn't look like it would pose any Constitutional problems. That's the way the electoral college is designed. I don't see anything for the courts to do in such a case. The choice of the electors would take office.
The whole subject of the electoral college is relevant here. Remember the November election is just to choose the electors for each state. The electors are the ones who actually vote for president and are at best loosely bound to their candidate. Each party chooses who the electors are in case they win. You can bet they are almost all enthusiastic supporters of their respective candidates.
For some background see this discussion of faithless electors. on Wikipedia. There is some discussion of Scenario 3 in there.
I'm not a constitutional scholar so maybe I'm wrong. Any thoughts?
Shouldn’t some entity be suing Obama under the Freedom of Information Act to see a lawful birth certificate ...There are lots of limitations to FOIA requests. Most personal data for instance.
And if it’s not already the law, there should be a law that requires proof that the candidate is a “natural born citizen” as they file to run for the nomination.Remember, you don't really vote for president, you vote for electors loosely pledged to a candidate who vote for president.
He is a militant anti-American and an abject marxist. I pray God he is never elected and am doing all in my power, in my own sphere of influence, to educate and inform others about the truth regarding this man, asking them to then do the same, in the hopes of helping defeat him.
A lot of people have been saying, “If there were anything to it, the Clintons would have exposed it.” But that does not take into account the following:
When would it PAY for the Clintons to expose the truth?
Anytime before the Convention starts?
After the Convention starts, but before Obama clinches the nomination?
After Obama clinches the nomination at the Convention?
If Hillary! IS the V.P. nominee?
If Hillary! is NOT the V.P. nominee?
If it looks as though Obama can’t beat McCain?
If it looks as though McCain can’t beat Obama?
So many variables. I agree that WHEN Obama is exposed, it will be the work of the Clintons, because the MSM will ignore any other source of information. But those who are dismissing the issue currently “because the Clintons would have exposed him,” are failing to consider that the Clintons may simply judge that the time is not yet right.
“I he has a valid American passport, then he has a valid American birth certificate. End of quibble.” (sic)
Yup, sometimes our side drinks kool-aide too.
Time to find another issue to dream about. This makes about as much sense as some of the nonsense from the KOS and MoveOn over the past 8 years.
Have any FREEPERS checked the Hawaiian newspapers for birth announcements about the time Obama was born. If I am not mistaken, hospitals usually report such information within a few days after a baby is born?
Also, if Obama’s mother and father were married in Hawaii, their names should appear with others who obtained marriage licenses. I m not sure if Hawaiian newspapers have such announcements sections but most papers do.
So many variables. I agree that WHEN Obama is exposed, it will be the work of the Clintons, because the MSM will ignore any other source of information. But those who are dismissing the issue currently “because the Clintons would have exposed him,” are failing to consider that the Clintons may simply judge that the time is not yet right.Maybe she is waiting for scenario 3 then. She would be a logical candidate for the electors.
He is not a naturalized citizen so that leaves only legitimate avenues.
However another poster points out that the Secretaries of the several states have to sign off on the qualifications of the candidates that they could disqualify the haloed one even after the election, and snce his electors would have been chosen on false pretenses they could be disqualified as well. IT WOULD BE A MESS!!
My prediction is that no one will have the “stones” to enforce the law.The question is who has the authority here. The way I read the Constitution it would be a Democratic Congress who probably wouldn't let a bill of impeachment out of a committee.
I'm not sure the Supreme Court could do anything.
But I wonder why were those people checking out his passport at the state dept ?
I strongly suspect, the 10th Amendment notwithstanding, a federal judge would rule to compel Hawaii, if not to produce the birth certificate for public view, at least to allow an officer of the federal court to examine the original birth records.
The Obama-isn’t-a-natural-born-citizen crowd should be lodging a suit in federal court.
Of course timing for such a suit becomes an interesting question.
Also, if Obama’s mother and father were married in Hawaii, their names should appear with others who obtained marriage licenses. I m not sure if Hawaiian newspapers have such announcements sections but most papers do.
His parents were not married and that information was not published back forty years ago.
No, the quibble is still there.
All a valid passport proves is that the State Department has determined that the holder is a U.S. citizen at the time it was issued. It does not address the questions of whether the person is a ‘natural born U.S. citizen’ as required for the assumption of the office of President of the United States, nor whether the question of whether the definition of ‘natural born U.S. citizen’ prevailing at the time of the person’s birth, or that prevailing at the time of the election is the relevant standard.
It would appear that the most substantial question as to Obama’s elegibility turns on whether he met the definition prevailing at the time of his birth, which place a lower age limit on the parent through whom natural citizenship could be claimed in cases where only one parent was a U.S. citizen.
Didn’t the laws in 1961 in Hawaii allow for parents to obtain a “Late” Certificate of Birth?
The Certificate of Hawaiian Birth program was established in 1911, during the territorial era, to register a person born in Hawaii whose birth had not been previously registered in Hawaii. The Certificate of Hawaiian Birth Program was terminated in 1972, during the statehood era.
Which would mean he is an American citizen, has an American passport, but may not be natural born.
I agree.
and snce his electors would have been chosen on false pretenses they could be disqualified as well.Why would they be ineligible? As I said, they are only loosely bound to their candidate. They would be free to choose another candidate if theirs died or became ineligible*. The electors didn't commit any fraud.
* For that matter even if they were just mad at him. See the article on faithless electors.
... a federal judge would rule to compel Hawaii ...I think that would be a very clear cut case of judicial activism. Doesn't mean it won't happen.
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