Posted on 03/28/2008 3:56:43 PM PDT by WFTR
The last thread I hosted was called "The Bucket List" and was based loosely on a movie that I'd never seen. I'm repeating the idea of threads about movies I've never seen again this week. In my defense, this one wasn't my idea. Someone else suggested a discussion of platonic friendships between men and women and the idea from the "Harry met Sally" movie that those friendships can't exist. I'm going to add an idea from a news story this week in part because the story seemed amusing and in part because I wonder whether there is a connection.
From what I've heard, the idea behind the movie When Harry Met Sally is that men, or at least Bill Crystal's character, believe that they can never have a truly platonic relationship with a woman because they'll eventually want to have sex with that woman. I don't remember whether this idea applies only to situations where the man feels a strong physical attraction to a woman or whether any man will eventually want to have sex with any woman. Apparently, "Harry" claims that this desire will eventually doom the friendship because the man won't be able to endure the stress of the unfulfilled desire.
The second part of the topic is a short article that was published this week claiming that the happiest marriages are those where the woman is more physically attractive than the man. The whole article is only a few sentences and can be found at http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,340869,00.html. Important points in the article include the fact that only 82 couples were included in the study and that they had been married only six months. The study that led to the article requires a subscription to read, so I don't know whether the details of the study strengthen the idea.
Combining these topics leads to several points of discussion.
First, do you agree with the idea that men and women cannot form platonic friendships? Are those friendships destined to be disrupted by sexual desire on one side or the other? If so, does that desire generally come from the man? If those friendships are possible, what are the factors that lead to those friendships and what are the factors that make them impossible? Is appearance a big part of the equation?
Secondly, do you agree with the idea that marriages will generally be better if the woman is more attractive than the man? Obviously, if you're a guy, you're going to look at any couple and find the woman more attractive, but in a more objective sense, will the relationship be stronger if the woman is more attractive? If you're a gal, you're likely to see things just the opposite, but the same question applies.
The distinction between sexual attraction and romantic attraction is important. I can see occasionally wanting to have sex with someone even though I would have little interest in an ongoing relationship with her. Back when I had more energy, that desire would have been even stronger. Now, the idea seems a little too tiring.
We already exchange hugs and listen to each other on a regular basis. I do not find that to be in any way problematic. Even a kiss on the cheek would probably not be “going too far” (although I would NOT be the one to “do it”—but I would NOT get upset if she did so—and would NOT tell her off or anything else hurtful).
She knows the limits. So do I. as it is—I often get face, neck and upper shoulder shampoo-massages from her on a regular basis. Would you find THAT to be “going too far”—I do not.
We are both adults, of similar age, and neither one of us would do anything to cause any problems. I am not even willing to do anything that would even cause a RUMOR of a problem to arise. If we ever do anything together, it will be with her husband too, or some other friend, or NOT AT ALL. I KNOW how much damage a rumor can do—even if it is NOT TRUE.
And she ALSO has told me, a good number of times, that I am “normal in an abnormal world” “one of a kind” and “ that any decent woman should be proud to have me as a friend”’ along with many other similar kind things-like how intelligent and gifted I am.
Keep in mind—SHE initiated, perpetuated and made EVERY move towards me in our friendship. I was way too scared and unsure to do anything on my own—and never would have. Had she not pursued me as a friend—I would not have ever gotten to know her at all. I AM glad she persisted though—it is nice to have a kind women that cares about me in my life—even as a friend.
Perhaps YOU could not be satisfied with that—but I can.
I’m hoping to grow some in containers this year. I live in an apartment so I’ll have to go that way. With the cost of produce on the rise, that is the only way to go.
I like long hair as well. Having mentioned Catherine Zeta-Jones, Brook Burk, and Julie Banderas in this thread, I obviously am not partial to blonds either. On the other hand, I could have feelings for the right lady regardless of her hair color. My only preference is that the color be natural. The color doesn't even have to be natural to the lady wearing it. The color just has to be natural to the human race. Even then, if everything else were right, I guess I could be happy with someone who had neon green hair. Of course, everything else would have to be absolutely perfect.
I would have never seen myself in a relationship with a black lady, but in the mid-90's, I met a black lady in a chat room. We started chatting, and things went well. We were never quite right for anything lasting, but I've never met any woman with whom I could have better conversations. We could chat about politics, society, history, travel, sports, religion, or any other topic. In a three or four hour conversation, we might hit most of those topics, and we'd have fun, substantive conversation on each of them. We disagreed on some big things, but we had great talks. I came to realize that race wouldn't be an issue.
I've known a few women of other races, and while I've never had the same conversations with them that I had with the one I met in the mid-90's, I think I could form a relationship with someone in one of those races as well. If everything else were right, I can't see race being an insurmountable barrier.
I agree that marrying a rich woman would feel strange. I think part of the issue would be how she became rich, how she wanted to live, and what she planned to do to remain rich. I'd want us to live frugally and live in such a way that we weren't living beyond my salary. If she was accustomed to living a more expensive lifestyle, she probably wouldn't be the right woman for me. If maintaining her income required her not to be there for me on most evenings and many weekends, I wouldn't see much point in marrying her. On the other hand, if she simply had a big trust fund but would be happy living simply, we could make things work. In some ways, I might even be more comfortable because I'd know that she wasn't just trying to get my money.
Growing veggies in an apartment would be a challenge, but I’m sure that more people are making the attempt. As you said, the rising costs of buying them at the store will make that option better for many people. On another level, trying to grow one’s own veggies may even be sorta fun.
Up and down season for them at one time it looked as if they were going to win the Premiership title easily and now recently have had several hick-cups and Manchester United are 6 points clear.
Fingers crossed for Arsenal in the European Champions Cup they have drawn Liverpool in the next round so at least one English team will get through to the next stage.
Well my extra hour does not start till today (Sunday) so have not really thought but it does mean I now have the option of feeding the pigeons after work rather than rush at lunch time.
Well tax rebate not relevant to me in fact I am looking at a tax and national insurance increase in April but I have withdrawn from company pension because due to government regs it is almost becoming too expensive to run a pension scheme and the company scheme costs keep rising each year for the same or reduced benefits so with my annual increase my net income will be a little bit more than at present.
To keep pace with reduced benefits that we have had to accept over the last 2 - 3 years I would have to pay out 10 per cent of my salary and to be frank it is just not worth it. I have about 25 years of pension at the higher rate which will give me at least some pension apart from the state pension when I retire so at present I am just freezing my company pension and using the extra cash to supplement the extra cost of food plus buying a few essentials for the house such as new curtain, blinds and at least one carpet.
Maybe in 2 or 3 years when regs etc have settled and maybe the stock market is more stable I may go back into the company scheme or start a new private pension of my own but I just have to see what circumstances are then.
I need the money now not in 20 years time.
If they have a pension entitlement to that :o)
Seriously though I can see a close friendship making a good marriage especially late in life when you want someone around each day.
Also some people may feel that marriage is needed even though it is still a platonic friendship to get the approval of family, friends and in particular local church if you are to live in the same house.
Good point about being ill and hospital I think hospitals are more understanding about couples not married nowadays especially when younger and they have young children but I can see when older they do not accept couples together so much who are not married.
I think the forced thing with conseravation turns people off rather than people naturally conserving resources.
Most of us were bought up to turn lights off with comments with parents of do you own shares in the electric company etc or we are not made of money or money does not grow on trees.
I find this sad and feel that people should butt out and allow people to have friends who they wish young, old, male female etc.
You can have just as much pressure put on by others if you have friends who either much older or younger or out of your normal social I hate to use the word but cannot think of anything else but social class. It can be difficult but if the friendship is real it will survive.
I am not so sure about the self confidence for some women that can be a turn off because it can come over as arrogant and all knowing.
An understated self confidence I think maybe is the best one that you do not really notice but you just know that the guy has it. Often this means they are willing to take risks even on the relationship because they know it is real and it will work.
If it is due to unforeseen or circumstances that could not be avoided or in the case of education and bettering yourself you have to go through I think it is not relevant apart from how you dealt with the problem.
If you were irresponsible and got into more debt than you needed to or expected others to bail you out then this indicates that you are irresponsible and not good with financial matters or other pressures that could lead to problems in a relationship.
On the other hand if you handled the situation well and kept the debt to the minimum you could and where possible had a plan to get out of the debt then not only do I see this not as problem in starting a relationship but as an advantage because that person would be adding their experience and knowledge of how to manage money and coping when things get tough in life which can be applied to other things as well as money.
Love has different formas as well you can love someone without being in love with them.
The problem I see with this it often takes rights away from the person not just gives some to the other person - well it does in Britain anyway not sure about the US.
“Most of these could come under the umbrella of “marriage of convenience”, an old-fashioned term.”
I’m reminded of an early scene in “Out of Africa” where Meryl Streep has been jilted by her lover and suggests to his brother that they get married because they’ve always been friends and most of the reasons you mentioned.
His response is “No. I have to marry a virgin, I can’t stand criticism.” One of my favorite movie lines.
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