Posted on 02/22/2008 7:23:44 PM PST by DeLaine
Son got his first ticket. Policeman said he didn't stop at a stop sign. It was dark, not even street lights in this area, but he saw this difficult-to-tell action in the dark, when Nathan says he had come to a stop. He didn't argue though.
But then he wanted to search the car. We've always told son not to agree to that, there is no reason. (actually, his former-cop dad told him don't agree to it) Dad is not in the picture, so I have to ask you all.
This was his first traffic stop and he was nervous. I was out of town, he'd never been pulled over before. He is 17. A conservative homeschooler. (now the LEO didn't know that, I understand that) But is mere nervousness of a 17 yo young man really probable cause? It wasn't late at night, it was after dinner, about 8:30 pm. A friend's mom had cooked him dinner and he was heading home. Son said there was 4 or 5 police cars, and a dog. That's the entire police force of this town, I think! I understand nervousness with other indicators, but what about only nervousness?? thanks
Because if you consent it broadens the scope and robustness of the search.
Because if you consent it broadens the scope and robustness of the search.
But it is enough to pat him down, search anything he can touch and hold him for the drug dog.
Wipe a little doobie resin on the back bumper and you've got your probable cause for the search. This is routine in modern day Amerika.
What race is your son?
ha. Not only is he my shyest one, he’s the palest white boy in town. LOL
Next time he should tell the officer that he is a Conservative Homeschooler and they will let him be on his way without a ticket or a search.
LOL. But Officer, I’m a GOOD white boy!!
I’m kidding about saying that, but I would like to know what to do and how to do it. That youtube video was helpful, I’m going to have him watch it too.
Maybe several times.
It just bugs me. We don’t have the money for all this hiring a lawyer and fighting it in court.
It amazes me that Americans have still not understood the full Constitutional implications of the War on Drugs.
And thats just beans compared to the fruits the War on Terror will bear.
I mean the WOD killed the 4th Amendment but now we literally have precedent warrantless surveilance, suspending habeas corpus and for torture.
I can't wait to see how that will work out.
“Fortunately, local jurisdictions with any self-awareness do seem to cull the rotten fruit from their ranks.”
You must be totally unfamiliar with small town Georgia law enforcement, said drily.
Sounds like they did everything by the book to me. With the exception of faking the drug dog indication and the failure to stop at the sign. But both of those are well within plausible deniability. There is absolutely nothing out of line here except the reader's blank incomprehension of the current state of our legal system.
Did the officers ask your son to consent to a search?
If yes, did he say "I do not consent" or words to that effect?
If yes, did the officers say: "I'm going to search anyway because I believe I have probable cause?"
Now probable cause is, legally, "a reasonable belief that a crime has been committed" - unless the officer can explain convincingly why he had a reasonable belief that your son had committed a crime, then a search without consent is a violation of your son's rights.
Moreover, he is a minor and I presume that the vehicle he was driving is in your name and not his.
Unless the officers were trying to argue that they were in imminent fear for their lives, they should not have touched your car or questioned your minor son further until you were present.
Please supply more details.
The dog alerted on training. IOWs the cops cued him to alert, or the dog alerts on anything. ...like mints...
How long did it take between the stop and the arrival of the dog?
Was your son cited? If he was, this is highly challengeable.
A sniffer hound should not get a positive on mints. If this is all they found, either the dog is completely useless for police work or the officer was lying to your son.
Any meth labs in that neighborhood?
I got a ticket for running a stop sign when I was 18. I fought it in court and got it dismissed because the judge knew the street and believed that the cop could be mistaken.
Yes, they asked him to consent, he respectfully refused, as he was taught. They did the same thing as that youtube video. “i can’t help you unless you come clean”
I don’t know what they said, exactly, but the gist of it was “well, we’ll have to do this the hard way, and call in the drug dog” or something like that.
The dog didn’t alert on the mints, the police pulled them out of the console and asked what they were and smelled them. It was just a few little candies. No Visine, nothing like that. just some Tic Tacs.
There was no belief that a crime had been committed. (rolling eyes) He said the original officer barely spoke to him before calling for backup and this guy came that did all the talking.
He is a minor and the car is registered in my name, but I wasn’t available and I’m glad they didn’t know, or they might have put him in detention or something!!!
Is it really an issue that they didn’t receive my permission when they also didn’t receive his permission?
The dog alerted, he says he thinks the dog was at the back of the car when she supposedly alerted. and he only had to wait a few minutes until the dog arrived. It’s a very small town. Probably a few thousand people.
If by cited, you mean given a ticket, yes, for running a stop sign.
The dog has a good reputation, but what do we really know???
I don’t know. I just want to know that my son is safe going back there, his girlfriend and several of his friends live there.
mark this thread
So, if I get this straight, the end result was that your son got a ticket for running a stop sign. And the car was searched?
Challenge it in court. Have your son tell the judge that he came to a complete stop. The officer was mistaken. Have him tell the conditions of the time of the stop, dark. And have him relate the story of how his car was searched with out his consent. Have him ask the judge what his recourse is for that. Let him decide he if wants follow up on that. The court system can be fun and there is no need for a lawyer. At a minimum he will still have to pay the ticket, but likely they will throw it out.
Don’t fear the court system, have him just go in and tell the truth. He is a home schooler and this is a good opportunity for him to deal with the government. Go with him but don’t talk on his behalf.
I thought that they look to see that your head/neck bobs when you come to a full stop.
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