Posted on 02/22/2008 7:23:44 PM PST by DeLaine
Son got his first ticket. Policeman said he didn't stop at a stop sign. It was dark, not even street lights in this area, but he saw this difficult-to-tell action in the dark, when Nathan says he had come to a stop. He didn't argue though.
But then he wanted to search the car. We've always told son not to agree to that, there is no reason. (actually, his former-cop dad told him don't agree to it) Dad is not in the picture, so I have to ask you all.
This was his first traffic stop and he was nervous. I was out of town, he'd never been pulled over before. He is 17. A conservative homeschooler. (now the LEO didn't know that, I understand that) But is mere nervousness of a 17 yo young man really probable cause? It wasn't late at night, it was after dinner, about 8:30 pm. A friend's mom had cooked him dinner and he was heading home. Son said there was 4 or 5 police cars, and a dog. That's the entire police force of this town, I think! I understand nervousness with other indicators, but what about only nervousness?? thanks
There probably was none. It was just cops being cops and making up the law as they go.
Maybe it was a slow TV night or the donut shop was closed.
Hope your son’s alright. Few deserve to be rolled over by the police and I’m sure he isn’t on the list.
Yes, when he refused permission, the officer called for what was a LOT of backup and a drug sniffing dog and searched the car, searched son, found some mints, smelled them, asked what they were.
The whole deal.
This includes a patdown and anything he can touch quickly. I.E. under the seat, the glovebox, etc.
It generally does not include zipped up backpacks and certainly not a locked briefcase where a person has a "reasonable expectation of privacy".
Always refuse a search but do not physically interfere when it occurs anyway.
For more details see "You and the Police!" by Boston T. Party.
Probable Cause is another matter.
This is my only shy one. If that cop thought he was nervous then, he should have seen him on the phone to me! But I wasn’t even upset at him. From my ex, I know how hard it is to even tell if a car comes to a complete stop. You pretty much have to just watch the wheels and see if you see that little backwards motion. But in the complete dark? Give me a break.
Nervousness is not probable cause. Your son can be held ~45 minutes on RAS for a drug dog. If the dog indicates, they have probable cause to search. Some unscrupulous will wipe dope resin on a car in order to obtain PC.
Do you live around Memphis?
Very weird indeed.
Sometime the law is just strange.
My brother was arrested for speeding, he was riding his ten speed.
The charges were dropped but what an ordeal.
So the cop appears to have used lack of consent to an unwarranted search as probable cause to search. That's illegal. Go to court and challenge it on those grounds. If there was probable cause to begin with, what was it, and why did he ask for permission?
Cops don't need probable cause to search your much of your car or your person under Terry.
Go to court and challenge it on those grounds. If there was probable cause to begin with, what was it, and why did he ask for permission?
Because then he can search beyond the scope of Terry.
They said the dog alerted. I can’t imagine on what. We were given this old car by a Christian couple. It sat unused and not running for over a year two weeks ago, when we got it worked on and fixed for him to get back and forth to work. There was no backpack, briefcase or anything in the car but son.
Nate says he didn’t see anything the dog did, there were so many cops around him.
And no, not Memphis. a small town in GA
We’ll live, I just don’t want to pay more for insurance because they had nothing better to do that night.
Any dollar bill has trace amounts of drugs. And as I said, using a fake drug dog alert is Standard Operating Procedure to void the 4th Amendment these days. Once the dog alerted, they can search the whole car not just a safety search. That's why they faked the alert.
The only question remaining is how long did he wait for the drug dog. They can only detain him on a traffic violation for 45 minutes or so. Any longer than that they needed PC which didnt arrive until the fake drug alert.
Depends on the state. In some, the traffic stop acts as the probable cause.
The whole deal.
Get a lawyer and file, also file formal complaint with the department against the officers involved.
Really? Then why do they ask, and why do some searches get thrown out?
No, that can’t be. Even if he did a “California stop” at the stop sign, that’s not probably cause for a drug search.
ping
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