Posted on 12/13/2007 7:18:21 AM PST by Hemingway's Ghost
This just ran across the ESPN News scroll...
"A source close to a former Yankees strength trainer tells ESPN The Magazine's Shawn Assael that the trainer told Mitchell investigators he supplied Roger Clemens with steroids; information supplied by this trainer is in the Mitchell report. According to one industry official who spoke to [the] Bergen Record, 'several' prominent Yankees will be named in the Mitchell report."
(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...
If Roger doped, he doesn’t have the tell-tale signs others have. No acne, head appears to be normal size, no aggressive behavior off the field. Just an observation.
My question is whether this “list” includes every person they could find who used, including those who received a shot for injury treatment under a doctor’s treatment or is it just players who used for performance (including illegal use for injuries).
Guess we’ll find out soon.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If I were to make a guess, I'd say Manny's illegal drug of choice---if, indeed, there is one---is "the chronic."
Sadly, me too.
I don’t know. I don’t know what the major league rules are, or were, since they’ve been revised in the past few years.
I have to say, it was the first time in over 3 months that I didn’t have a sinus headache, so I’m pretty glad I had it.
That's ridiculous; you want to have the longest baseball threads on ESPN.com, just make the news article steroids-related and it'll jack up to 1000+ in a day. I never said the records were sacred, but I do think the public wants the competition to be on an even level, and steroids eviscerates that. If we took a poll of baseball fans and asked them what they consider to be the "real" record for home runs, who do you think they'd pick? I think you know as well as I do the answer would be Maris.
Nope.
Not necessarily, I was on a baseball roid thread just a few months ago that never got past 50, some threads get huge and some don’t just like any other sports thread, just like any other thread really.
You said they were the only records people care about, same thing as sacred and 100% wrong. Baseball fans care about baseball records, non-baseball fans don’t care about baseball records. It’s just like any other sport in that regard, the fans care, the non-fans don’t.
Given the way this list has people in every position on the field it’s hard to say steroids eviscerated the level playing field when guys on both sides of plays were roided up.
Who cares what a poll says, the poll that matters is the gate, and the gate has gone up during the roid era and hasn’t gone down during the roid “scandal” part of the era. The fans don’t give a crap. Sure if you directly go out of your way to ask they’ll give you an opinion, that’s what people do, but the numbers that matter show the people don’t care. Roids haven’t made people stop attending the game, haven’t made people stop watching, haven’t made people stop spending money on the game. Which shows irrefutably that the fans are uninterested in the roid controversy. It’s a sideshow kept alive by a press corp desperate for things to talk about during a 162 game season.
I remember in the late 60s, and very early 70s, an Offensive Tackle at 270 lbs was considered 'huge'. There might have been one person in the league at 300 lbs. Most Guards were around 230 to 240 lbs.
All the protein supplements, and weight training cannot explain what we see today:
Most Offensive Linemen over 300 Lbs (even in college!). Fullbacks at 230 to 240 lbs. The size change in 30 years seems inexplicable ... unless someone is playing Chemist.
Twenty years later, the average size high school lineman was about 250 lbs. No way does that happen just with weight training and better nutrition.
1996? Hellooooooooo?
“every person they could find who used...”
nope just Republicans...anybody check to make sure that these are all ballplayers? just asking!
some threads get hugh
and some threads get series
this’ns gonna be hugh and series.
This one will be. The Mitchell report is long awaited and the list of names will be a big deal. Of course with it being released now by the time the baseball season starts the only part of this that will matter is who’s suspended, by the mid point of the season those should all be done and this whole thing will be comfortably under the rug.
I didn’t say there weren’t ANY power pitchers over the age of 40, just darned FEW. Randy Johnson appears to be ‘done’, however. It’s a shame, too.
Roger Clemens
Andy Pettitte
Miguel Tejada
Brian Roberts
Chuck Knoblauch
Mike Stanton
Jason Grimsley
David Justice
“Oh, my goodness gracious! Of all the dramatic things, of all the dramatic things I’ve ever seen, Andy Pettitte standing right in George Steinbrenner’s box shooting a syringe into Roger Clemens’ rear end!” — Suzyn Waldman, WCBS Radio, if she had been paying closer attention if she had been paying closer attention (Boston Dirt Dogs)
Everyone took steroids then and the Stone Age Press encouraged it. Hypocrites all.
Pray for W and Our Victorious Troops
No it’s not the same thing as sacred, but I will maintain that no other sport can truly rival baseball for the cachet that numbers like 755, 714, 4256, 56, .406 all have.
As for competition, if you have one guy who uses and one doesn’t, that’s unbalanced competition right there. And though the pitchers and fielders might have been using at equal rates too, if we’re to judge by the numbers steroids has an uneven effect in promoting offense.
I can see why you want to ignore polls, since it doesn’t square with what you claim, and directly relates to the question where the other does not. Attendance has been steadily increasing since kicked down by the strike, and has continued doing so even after the sport began cracking down on the stuff and suspending players. I could just as easily spin that as people responding and appreciating the efforts to clean the game, but it’s not a gauge for judging what people believe about steroids.
That's a major part of it. Look at pictures from old-time NFL players, or even those from the 60s or early 70s. They weren't in-shape like today's players; they were even fat. They had regular jobs in the off-season and didn't train except for training camp. I'm sure there were probably very few teams at that time that had an organized weight training program.
Now, on the other hand, weight training is huge. Heck, we even had organized weight training on my freshman baseball team at my (small) Jesuit high school. I understand my primary school now has weight-lifting facilities. This could very well make a huge difference in today's players.
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