Vista (laptop) vs Macbook

Peter Haus Blog ^ | 03/17/2007 | Peter Haus

[Swordmaker]

Well, my experiences of both types of laptop this week has left me reeling. Where do I start?

Let’s start with the Mac, a MacBook with OSX preloaded.

The MacBook was a joy to look at, very well finished with a glossy white sheen that looked and felt good in the hand. And light.

On opening the thing had obviously been placed in suspension, and it just started. It found my network and was ready to use. The interface, OSX, with its one button for the mouse, threw me for a few minutes as I am VERY used to Windows with a two button mouse with a scroll wheel. But within a few minutes it was ok and I was off and running.

If you thought Windows was intuitive then you haven’t used a Mac lately. Everything worked as you think it should. From the perfectly designed email client to the built in iLife apps. Want a picture from here over there in that app? Drag it and drop it. And it’s there. It has been well thought out, and designed to be easy to use for a person. Not a USER, but a PERSON.

All of the “dialogue” boxes are made to explain everything in plain English, or close enough. It’s as though this machine has been carefully planned at thought about, and you can tell. A real pleasure to use, and the kids liked it too.

Now the Vista Laptop, an HP Compaq nc8430.

When I say Vista it had Windows XP on it so I had to load on Vista first. After picking this laptop up once and carrying it somewhere once I would have to say that I will not move it too often again. Man this thing is heavy. A beast. The case that came with it is HEAVIER that the MacBook. Think about that for a second, the case is heavier on its own than the entire MacBook. With the HP laptop inside it was heavy, and the strap dug into my neck. I couldn’t carry it very far. And its black, not a nice black, but that aggressive corporate laptop black.

So – I have to set up Vista. I will spare you that, but it’s been the last 24 hours or so of configuration after the Vista install that has been frustrating and well, just plain annoying. I wanted to thump the laptop, and I never got cross once with the Mac.

What’s with the keyboard? I’m typing, and suddenly the cursor jumps to another part of my document and starts typing there. Why? Who knows. It’s happened twice since I started typing this. And the dialogue boxes that pop up when you click on anything (the keyboard thingy just happened a third time!) not just once but two or three times. What is with that? Please – go away. And take the HP laptop with you.

The HP laptop is just not designed for people, it’s designed for USERS. And corporate users at that, so it comes with everything that corporate customers have wanted, ever. There’s a fingerprint scanner on the front, so that I can be checked. Whats wrong with a password, you asked me enough times for it. And Vista just isn’t designed for ordinary people, it’s designed for USERS, those mythical people who will won’t mind sitting down for 24 hours configuring a PC so that they can start to use it. HP, Microsoft, hire some designers!

[Swordmaker]

Is there a reason the blog of some guy who works in tech support for a college in England should be considered an authoritative source in a Vista vs. Mac discussion?

Who said it was "authoritative?" It is the subjective impressions of a Windows PC using IT guy, experiencing his first contacts with a Mac... nothing more.

If it is biased, where did the bias come from? Could it have been his years of PC experience? It is certainly not from his Mac experience.

[donmeaker]

I use Windows software every day.

My one experience with a Mac was in 1992, when a subcontractor sent a disk with the presentation he had developed on it. I got it the AM before the meeting. I tried it, and lo it could not be read. I called, and he said oh, it was written by a Mac.

I had about 1.5 hours to review and modify as necessary, the 70 odd powerpoint slides, using a Mac that I had never used before. I called our computer guys to locate a Mac in our very large building. There was one in a classroom just down the hall. We had perhaps 20, total in a building that held about 7000 people.

I was done with an hour to spare. Simply wonderful. I continue to use Windows products, but have the greatest respect for the designers of Apple products.

[verum ago]

MacBooks can have 2 gig RAM

[blu]

Prepare to be roasted and toasted by the MAC heads here, NO negativity about Apple is allowed

Well, see, that's cos most of us are on the MAC PING LIST...which is a group of Mac enthusiasts. So that explains why we're here......(leaving the unasked question..uh...well...unasked!)

Couple of notes (to others, I know this won't interest you, but I am on a Save The Bandwidth crusade tonight):

About the mouse- I just buy a Targus laptop (it's tiny, like my 5 lb. iBook) and plug it in. It has two buttons and a scroll wheel. I love the wheel, and am finding using the right button gives me more options, which is cool. Less menu jazz. I also picked up a GE wireless mouse ($22..00 Walgreen's) and it's nice, certainly small, but rather clunky. Oh, and it requires a mouse pad...how 80's is that! I use the Targus wired one, it's more responsive. It's so awesome to be able to go to the drugstore and buy peripherals for my Mac!

I think the PC/MAc thing is starting to be less combative (well, I guess Gates doesn't think so yet!). Every day we see more and more people saying "Oh, hey, those Macs aren't so bad!" Personally, I think it's the PCGuy MacGuy commercials...I think MacGuy is so sweet to poor PCGuy!

As for tech support, I wonder how many Mac people actually use it? Way back in the day, when I bought my first Performa, I spent 15 minutes with Apple Support, telling them in my best "Oh-my-god-the-computer-just-ate-my-financial-report-that's-due-to-the-committee-tomorrow-afternoon-And-why-didn't-you-include-the-system-disks-with-these-darn-thiings" voice. The perfectly understandable person on the other end of the line agreed, said it was stupid, and what was the address of my office, so they could overnight the disks to me? Problem solved. That's the only time I ever needed tech support because of one simple fact: Macintoshes are made for people. They are logical. If one can read and reason, one can fix almost any software problem. The coffee on/in the keyboard thing, however, required a visit to the Apple store. That was back in the day of proprietary peripherals...now I can just go to Walmart. So, the point of this long dissertation (saving bandwidth, yeah, right!) is this: Macs are simple to use and simple to fix. If I could teach my 80 yr old mother to use a powerbook to check email and shop on ebay in an afternoon AND fix a freeze-up (she whose most recent tech purchase was a Royal typewriter in 1968!) then they must be simple to use!

(And now for a FR tech question: when I preview this post, it's way wide. If I post it and it's way wide to any of you, go ahead and ask a mod to pull it...)

[Turbopilot]

Well, you thought it worthy to post here, so I don't think it's unreasonable to conclude that you think the author had some credentials beyond, well, being able to write something on the internet.

I don't know that the author is biased, but I'm also not sure what he was comparing. Is it that specific HP model vs. that specific Macbook model? Is it OSX vs. Vista (which he basically didn't discuss)? Is it the ease of upgrading to Vista vs. the ease of upgrading to OSX (which he didn't do)?

If someone posted an article where a random person complained that he had problems upgrading from OS9 to OSX on a Macbook, and then said he was happy with a new PC that came preinstalled with Vista and happened to weigh less than the Macbook, I don't think you'd consider that a useful or informative article. I don't see how posting the opposite is much more than uninformative cheerleading.

[IslandJeff]

And its black, not a nice black, but that aggressive corporate laptop black.

This sentence only degrades his subjectivity, rather than speak well of Apple. With friends like this...

[Swordmaker]

If someone posted an article where a random person complained that he had problems upgrading from OS9 to OSX on a Macbook, and then said he was happy with a new PC that came preinstalled with Vista and happened to weigh less than the Macbook, I don't think you'd consider that a useful or informative article. I don't see how posting the opposite is much more than uninformative cheerleading.

Find one. I'll post it.

Well, you thought it worthy to post here, so I don't think it's unreasonable to conclude that you think the author had some credentials beyond, well, being able to write something on the internet.

I posted it because I found his conclusions interesting... that the Windows PC laptop (and OS) was built for users while the Mac laptop (and OS) was built for people.

I'm also not sure what he was comparing. . .

I think he was comparing ease of use and initial impressions of the OS with a sprinkling of hardware comparison.

He should have been comparing the Mac Book Pro to the HP instead of the MacBook. He might have found the weight issue to be less because the MacBook Pro is almost as heavy as the HP.

Comparing the Apple MacBook Pro to the Hp Compaq nc8430 Notebook with the same processor (2.16GHz v. 2.16GHz Core 2 Duo) and RAM (1 GB), we find the Mac is lighter (5.6Lbs v. 6 Lbs), has a larger HD (120GB v. 100 GB), smaller (134.5³ in. v. 154.4³ in.) and cheaper ($1,999 v. $2,250).

[Turbopilot]

Find one. I'll post it.

Here's an article written by a self-described "certified Mac fanboy" who concludes that "Vista is currently pouncing all over OS X Tiger in most scenarios." Posting it with your "FUD" logo doesn't count :-p

I think he was comparing ease of use and initial impressions of the OS with a sprinkling of hardware comparison.

Maybe, but he didn't write much about it. Most of the article was complaining about problems upgrading to Vista from XP despite the fact that he was performing no upgrade on the Mac (and it's a good idea to do a clean install for an OS upgrade anyway), and then complaining that the specific Windows laptop he chose was heavier than the Macbook, as though there aren't hundreds of Windows laptops on the market in all sizes and weights. It's not really Vista's fault that his laptop is heavy; unlike Apple, Microsoft doesn't sell the hardware, and you have many different choices, so the hardware shouldn't play a role in an OS comparison.

the Windows PC laptop (and OS) was built for users while the Mac laptop (and OS) was built for people.

What does this even mean? I'm a person. I use computers, which presumably makes me a "user" also. My friends, family, and coworkers are also people, and also users of computers. What's the difference?

[Swordmaker]

Here's the Pro-Vista comparison... Thanks for finding it.

[Shimmer128]

I just had to buy a laptop (IBM) when I wanted a Mac. I'm an avid Mac fanatic, but the schooling i'm starting has software that doesn't work well with a Mac (or Vista) I made sure i got XP. I'll survive, but it sure was hard to spend that money for a Windows using machine. :D

[Turbopilot]

And thank you for posting it.

[kdot]

It's never fun to be out of your comfort zone. Hopefully, you will adjust to Windows XP. But one question, and I'm seriously not trying being caddy, but I though Macs were able to run any PC software now. I thought all the proprietary problems were fixed. What did I miss?

And one note for the general thread - my opinion of course. The Mac vs PC debate has gotten so contentious lately for a couple reasons.

First, it's not possible on FR any more to have a thread (even in General/Chat) that discusses Windows or Microsoft without having a smart-ash user posting a lame thread like "Buy a Mac". That's obnoxious, changes the course of the thread, and makes the poster look like a child.

Second, while I laugh at the commercials too, you must admit they are disingenuous. One of the first had to do with a Mac simply plugging in a digital camera and it "just worked". I watched that commercial with my 8 year who received a Fuji Finepix for Christmas. She took it out of the box on Christmas morning, plugged it into our Windows PC and it also "just worked". It was so easy, as advertised, and she didn't understand why the commercial said it was hard. From the voices of children. One more example, our laptops have built in cameras and microphones, just like the Mac. We didn't have to use masking tape around our head to try to be like a Mac. While funny, that commercial isn't very honest. Now the "cancel/allow" commercial - you got me there.

Admit it, there is a childish quality to most Mac vs PC debates that quickly degrades to combat. It's pretty silly because most users are happy with their chosen platform. Sure, there are some crossovers and their testimony is good for both markets. I'm glad to hear from them, but not at a playground quality.

Telling me to "Buy a Mac" isn't going to make me buy one. It just inserts emotion into the argument.

k.

[Shimmer128]

I know how to use XP. I was an XP (and 98 and 95 and Win 3.1) user for many years. and then i switched. OMG! You gotta be there. Most of the smugness comes from the sheer pleasure of seamless integration of ....virtually everything!

For me, it was just too complicated right now to use Windows on a Mac, my life is requiring all my attention and i can't be bothered with installing and running everything. XP is what it wants, XP is what it will get.
darn it.
On the other hand, i got a steal of a deal at the Navy Exchange online. Plus no tax, no shipping.

[kerryusama04]

I realized that I left that out later. The spec. I couldn't get over was the 64M video card. I think buying a notebook with less than a 128M video card in 2007 is foolish and invites obsolescence problems. I'm surprised that Mac even makes them that low.

[kerryusama04]

p.s. I botched the comment about the hard drive, too. That was supposed to say "beyond 120G". Here is the link with the correct stats

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=A4791B5D&nclm=MacBook

If the top of the line MacBook had an option to upgrade the video card, I would have saved $500.

[kerryusama04]

Second, while I laugh at the commercials too, you must admit they are disingenuous. One of the first had to do with a Mac simply plugging in a digital camera and it "just worked". I watched that commercial with my 8 year who received a Fuji Finepix for Christmas. She took it out of the box on Christmas morning, plugged it into our Windows PC and it also "just worked". It was so easy, as advertised, and she didn't understand why the commercial said it was hard. From the voices of children. One more example, our laptops have built in cameras and microphones, just like the Mac. We didn't have to use masking tape around our head to try to be like a Mac. While funny, that commercial isn't very honest. Now the "cancel/allow" commercial - you got me there.

My experience with this selling point on Mac is quite different. My wife has a Canon i9900 printer for digital photos. On XP, the printer required me to install it's driver, which came with a bunch of shareware. When I got the Mac, I simply plugged it in with a USB and it actually worked. No driver, no shareware, nada. It just worked. I find that most cameras do work on XP if you just plug them in, like you say, but other than using the generic text LPT1 driver on Windows, I have never had this happen on a pc.

[George W. Bush]

The article shows the high rate of satisfaction with Mac products in the OOBE category (Out Of Box Experience).

Shipping it in suspended mode is a nice touch.

[George W. Bush]

A laptop with a mature WindowsXP would be my choice.

If XP does all you want, then it can still be an excellent choice.

The whole Mac vs. Vista debate is more about market leaders and techies. It comes down to whether you like the direction MS has taken over the years and especially with Vista and whether Mac has finally become a real alternative.

The answer is that for people who are sick of MS bugs and corporate sleaziness and poor security, Mac has become a very viable option and can virtualize WinXP for those must-have-Windows situations (some games and certain industry-specific apps).

There is no doubt that some of this is about techies being sick of having no alternative to MS and wanting to do business with someone else. Until now, there hasn't been much alternative.

[George W. Bush]

Another note is tech support. Apple tech support is in America and staffed by Americans.

No more Abbu from India reading a script.

And Apple's tech support people are pretty knowledgable on their own plus all the tech materials they have access to. What a difference from placing a call to India or the Philippines or Central America.

With Dell/HP, you get to talk to an American when they sell it to you. They only turn you over to Abbu for the tech support. It tells you a lot about how they look at their customers.

With Apple, they have more regard for customers over the course of the machine's service life. I get a lot of service calls on HP or Dell machines just because people don't even want to call their tech support because it's such a hassle.

It's all part of the Apple experience.

BTW, anyone else notice that the 10.4.9 update just released makes Widgets and other things run faster? Especially screen functions on Nvidia cards (MacPro, iMacs). It points up another Apple difference. Every new OS (like the upcoming Leopard) runs faster on all Apple still in service. Compare that to running new versions of Windows on old machines. A world of difference. Apple adds very significant features to each OS and makes the entire thing run faster and more secure.