An unofficial weekend (substitute) thread - Feb 9-11 (the dark side?)

A recent "Valentine's" discussion thread turned to flame wars and ended when someone complained to the management. That end is unfortunate because the thread might have provoked some worthwhile discussion. I can't quote the exact question, but the general thought was:

For those who aren't in a meaningful relationship on this Valentine's Day, what are you doing to prepare for that relationship when it comes?

I'm a lonely single, and I realize that the week around Valentine's Day can leave many of us with feelings a little more raw than usual. I realize that for many of us, the first thought is that we're doing nothing to prepare for a relationship because there's no point in preparing for something that is a lost cause. Regardless of whether one believes that a relationship is still a possibility, the question is interesting. For those who don't believe that they will find a relationship, the question changes to:

As you've come to believe that you won't find a long-term romantic relationship, what changes have you made to reflect this new strategy on life?

An example of an answer to the second question might be something like:

I always believed that I would get married and have children, so I always bought cars with four doors and a full back seat. I didn't want to be forced into buying a new car two years into a marriage because a baby was on the way and I needed a vehicle with a back seat. When I realized that I would never marry or have a family, I traded the sedan for a sports car. Maybe the sports car will bring more female attention, but those women are too shallow for the kind of relationship that I envision.

I think intelligent people could have a good discussion around either question. Even those who have largely given up might have some interesting thoughts on what they used to do to prepare for a future relationship or what they would advise young people to do to prepare. I'd like to throw these questions open for discussion.

In hopes of avoiding another flame war, I'd ask that people observe a few courtesies.

As I said previously, this week is not a fun time for some of us. We're a little more defensive than usual. I've often referred to Valentine's Day as "National rub my face in my failures day." For some of us who've reached our late 30's and 40's with little hope of success, retreating into grim jokes about life, romance, or anything else is a helpful release. This thread may not be a "sunshine and flowers" thread, and if a darker discussion is a problem for you, please consider visiting one of the many "happy talk" threads about Valentine's Day.

If your religious beliefs tell you that being single is a great thing, that's fine. I'm happy for you, and I'm happy that we live in a country where you can hold and express those beliefs. As for me, I hate being single. I hate it with all of my heart and all of my mind and all of my being. I hate everyone who ever gave me advice or advocated ideas that led me towards the mistakes that caused me to be single. If you want to express your "single is wonderful even on Valentine's Day" views, that's fine, but I'd really rather see a thread focused around the "how to prepare" or "how to change life strategies" questions. If you believe that being single is wonderful, please respect others' right to express different feelings even if they don't make you feel all sunny and happy.

We may have some bad feelings and express them in hard words, but there's no point in having a "men are horrible/women are horrible" kind of thread. I'm alone because I've failed to build a relationship right now and so are you. My failures are not entirely my fault, and neither are yours. The problem isn't "all men" or "all women." Sometimes, we can find interesting truth in generalizations, but broad accusations rarely produce anything of value.

If you need to vent, vent, but I would like people to steer somewhat towards thoughts around these two questions.

But the best of plans don't always work - this Christmas I totally flaked on going to this one party I'd planned to go to, mainly because the hosts (longtime, dear friends) told me "we want to introduce you to ___" and at the last minute I got intimidated and felt like there was no way I could match up to the good descriptions my friends probably gave that guy - total self-esteem downer moment.

I guess this feeling shows a big male/female difference. I've never been intimidated to meet a woman that others thought might be right for me. In my church days, I'd sometimes ask for a delay because i thought that I had "to pray about it" a certain amount before it was okay to meet someone, but I was never that worried about meeting. In some ways, it was interesting and at times discouraging to see what some other people thought was appropriate for me. In more recent years, I've had people say that they were trying to set something up, but nothing more has ever been said. I've always avoided bringing it up again because I don't want to create awkwardness if the person heard the description and was very turned off.

For me, the bigger problem is that I won't take the chance of "drilling dry holes." I hate to go to some social function where I might meet someone if I think it's likely that I'll not meet anyone remotely appropriate. I'm not at my best in those gatherings and don't enjoy them. When they're over and I haven't met anyone or met someone who clearly wasn't interested, I feel particularly discouraged that I've wasted a few hours of my life and accomplished nothing. I think of other things I could have done and enjoyed more or felt better about doing. Those feelings keep me from going to the next event.

Good for you!!!!!!!

I know many engineers, and all have a bit of trouble loosening up in the non-work world. I don't know what it is about you creatures, but do me a favor.

Think of your favorite song, play it, and get up and dance. Be silly for two minutes. Even if you are a terrible dancer. No one will be there, just let loose. I guarantee you will feel a bit better after you do that.

If you notice, there are very few children who are brooding and depressed, rigid in their activities and apprehensive about their future. You know why? Because children know how to be silly. They know how to enjoy the moment. They know how to play, without worrying about tomorrow.

Adults can benefit a great deal by remembering how carefree we were when we were kids. What changed? You learned how to worry.

Play a song, and go silly. Just for two minutes. It's good exercise, too. ; )

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'd like to make a couple of comments and ask whether you'd like to expand on a point or two.

This sounds quite Pollyanish, but I wake up every morning determined to be happy, and 9 times out of 10, I am.

When I was younger and still going to church, I had a preacher who had supported himself for much of his life as a salesman because he pastored churches that were too small or too poor to pay him. I had originally gone to his church when I was in college, and being a pastor in a town with an engineering school, he'd known many engineers who came to him for advice.

He once told me about a big difference between engineers and salesmen. He said that if a salesman makes 10 sales calls and gets 10 rejections, the salesman says to himself, "The next call is bound to produce a sale. I have a great product. I have a great presentation. If the last 10 calls haven't worked out, the next one is bound to be a success." On the other hand, if an engineer were to make 10 sales calls and get 10 rejections he'd say, "Okay, I've run this experiment. I've gotten a repeatable result. I can draw my conclusion now. I'm not going to be able to sell this product."

There are very different mindsets that are a part of what makes every person a human being. Those mindsets come with different advantages and disadvantages. I'd guess that you wouldn't want to drive over a bridge designed by an engineer who took the attitude that even though his last 10 designs had failed, he was a great engineer who had great designs, and his next bridge was bound to stand for 100 years. On the other hand, if there weren't people who could persuade themselves that a product was good regardless of past failures, maybe commerce couldn't happen because no one would be wiling to take commercial risks.

My point is that not all of us can just say that "Today is going to be a good day," and make a good day happen. We just aren't made that way. I've been through numerous experiences in my life where I was determined that I was going to turn a setback into something positive or I was entering an unknown situation and was going to make it into something positive. I worked and worked and worked to make those positive things happen, but the result of the situation was negative. When I looked at the facts, I had to admit that things had gone poorly by any reasonable measure.

If you can wake up every morning determined to be happy and succeed 9 of 10 times, that's great. I mean it when I say that I'm impressed. I suspect that your mindset is more like that of the salesman. You can tell yourself that things can be good even though you may face evidence to the contrary, and you can eventually convert that confidence into good returns. I'm speculating about you, and I understand that I can't expect to be right about someone who is a stranger except for five or six lines of text on an internet forum. If I'm wrong, I apologize. If I'm anywhere close to being right, maybe there's more good information that you can add to this thread.

I want to give another illustration. In the course of earning my engineering degrees, I've taken many classes on many subjects. In some cases, I can understand the theory and the practice of some topic fairly easily. In some cases, I can understand the theory, but I have a hard time with the practice. In other cases, I can do the practice well enough by following a few guidelines and principles, but I have a hard time with the theory. Sometimes, when I can do the practical applications, doing them enough times makes the theory clear to me.

To some extent, my original questions are about practice rather than theory. I'm asking for discussion of things to do to prepare for marriage or things to do once remaining single seems inevitable. My idea was to put out some practical ideas without addressing theory. To me, your reply seems more about theory, or maybe the practice of a mindset that some of us simply don't have. If you could take what you know but step outside your perspective, is there a different way to say what you know that would make it easier to understand for someone with a completely different mindset and perspective?

Bill

PS. Has anything that I've said in this post made the least bit of sense?

Yes, your post to me, as well as your other posts, make a great deal of sense, and are well thought-out.

I knew that I could not live in the abject despair if I didn't try to get, and succeed at getting, the attitude that I now have about that part of my life and my life now.

My heart's desire, since I became an adult, was to have someone to share my life with. The comment I posted was about how I came to terms with that, not an easy thing for me to do after many failed relationships and a failed marriage.

As for giving advice to anyone, since everyone is different, as you so excellently pointed out, everyone needs to look within themselves and find what will get them through the difficult times, whether it's a relationship, a job, or whatever. If that takes professional counseling, I say go for it, anything which will help.

I certainly do realize that each of us are different in our ways of looking at life, and that our life experiences are different. What I am also saying is eventually one will reach a point at which they say to themselves, "I'm either going to let this get me down, or I'm going to do something about it.

One of my favorite movies is "The Sound of Music". One of my favorite lines from that movie is, (and I may not have this exactly right) "whenever God closes a door, He opens a window".

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