Posted on 12/03/2006 7:54:15 AM PST by HarmlessLovableFuzzball
COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) — A 14-year-old boy who was throwing eggs at cars along with two other teenagers was shot and killed by someone who had been in a sport-utility vehicle that was hit, police said.
Danny Crawford was killed by a gunshot wound to his upper body, Franklin County Coroner Brad Lewis said. He died in an alley on the city's west side early Saturday, authorities said.
The teens were throwing eggs at cars when an SUV that was struck chased them, Detective Tim Huston said. The vehicle stopped and several gunshots were fired, he said.
Police were looking for the shooter, who fled in the SUV, Sgt. Dana Norman said. The SUV believed to be involved was found a short time later near where Crawford died.
The other teens were not hurt, police said.
There's a lot of good replies on this thread, but I laughed out loud when I saw yours. :-)
my comment was given "with a little levity", ;-) loved your story, it deserved to be the last post in the thread
"Considering that he was driving around at 1 in the morning "
Do you think the kid was a Good Christian Young Man with a a Dog hunting for easter eggs mommy hid behind their White Picket Fence at 1 am?
The fact stands, that if they had chosen to be at home at 1AM, in bed, dreaming about thowing eggs, the kid would be alive now wouldn't he?
I have repeatedly criticized the kid's actions as irresponsible, even criminal. Can you bring yourself to make the slightest criticism of the driver? Maybe he overreacted? Maybe he needs to work on controlling his temper?
Not all SUV drivers are conservatives. Lots of liberal hypocrites who talk green and clean but live gray and pollutin' also drive SUVs.
Your desire to murder is the answer?
"I know that the kid didn't deserve to die, but it still makes me giggle that he did" ping!
"Can you bring yourself to make the slightest criticism of the driver? Maybe he overreacted? Maybe he needs to work on controlling his temper?"
Of course, I think the exact same things you do about the driver. But these people are out there, we really don't have any control over that fact do we, so the obvious course of action is to actively choose to minimize any contact with them which would include not being with a bunch of people throwing eggs at them.
"Both the kid and the driver have responsability over their actions. The kid made a bad, stupid decision. It had consequences. The driver made a worse decision that hopefully will have a consequences, if they catch him."
True. But the kid had no control over the driver's decision, that is the precise reason he should have made the smarter choice to not be with a bunch of people throwing eggs at cars.
God promises that the death penalty is a reliable deterrent:
* "So you shall put away the evil from Israel. And all the people shall hear and fear, and no longer act presumptuously." Deut. 17:12-13
Yet, the death penalty as executed through American courts is not much of a deterrent. Wise King Solomon 2,900 years ago explained why this is so:
* Because the sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil. Eccl. 8:11
Our court system is part to blame for crime. If these kids had known that evil does bring quick and harsh responses then they would not of been out past midnight into mischief. Because their past transgressions were probable sugar coated, they realized that they were given a free reign to commit crimes.
The home is the first and foremost place to start training, but failing that, society has a duty to see that crime is punished and more harshly than today's society seem to have a stomach for.
Our society being soft on crime has produced a social climate of those wanting to see justice done and having seen it not done so, have wrongly taken to taking wrath into their own hands.
* The righteous shall rejoice when he sees the vengeance... So that men will say, "Surely there is a reward for the righteous; Surely He is God who judges in the earth." Ps. 58:10-11
* Let grace be shown to the wicked, yet he will not learn righteousness... Isa. 26:10
Today, with godless weenies in government and people that don't understand you are not doing criminals good by not punishing them, we have a society that deeply craves "righteous judgment". Some not understanding the God will avenge us in due time, will do things like this article details. It is unfortunate, but we have reaped what we sowed because people can not even see that unruly boys need punishment so they can not cause responses what we read today.
Same goes for the driver, if he had been punished for his past behavior and knew that his sins would too be punished, he perhaps would not of pulled that trigger.
A lawless nation in turn causes more damage than the people often realize.
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BTW... em2vn... I asked you (after you compared me to an Islamic devil) to prove your post that there was an age limiter on the Jesus quotes I provided. You have not... either put up or recant your post. Thank you...
* "Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? For God commanded, saying... `He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.' But you say..." Mat. 15:3-4
* "For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men..." [Jesus] said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother; and 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.' But you say..." Mark 7:8-11
Also you can reference ... Ex. 21:17 and Lev. 20:9
No one called you an Islamic devil. I did imply that Islam seems to fit your wacked out view of the Old Testament and your pronouncement that Christ advocated murder.
Relying on the Old Testament to support your distorted position when the law of the Old Testament was fulfilled in Jesus is without foundation.
Your Old Testament references were the words of Moses as he spoke to the nation of Israel. The children of the families of Israel were considered as children without formed minds that would allow them to be responsible for their actions. That occured when they reached adulthood.
Let me help you... Lev 20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood [shall be] upon him.
I quoted two NEW TESTIMENT quotes by Jesus that said that the OT rule still applies and where he calls those that don't follow it because of their "traditions" "Hypocrites". Jesus most definately supported the death penality (you may call it "murder", but Jesus didn't).
Jesus affirmed the Mosaic Law even to the keeping of the "least of these commandments" (Mat. 5:17-19)
Laying aside the commands of God has its consequences. In America, murder has become the number one cause of death among young black males, and suicide is the number three cause of death among all teenagers. There is a death penalty when children disrespect their parents. If Jesus' telling of God's command is ignored, countless children will die terrible deaths at the hands of other children and by their own hands. On the other hand, if God's command were enforced, rather than ridiculed, the shedding of innocent blood would virtually disappear in our land. God's wisdom would save thousands of children. man's wisdom destroys them.
While Jesus was on the cross the Romans inflicted the death penalty on the two criminals2 next to Him. Christ said nothing in their defense, or against their crucifixions. One of those two mocked Christ. In response, the other criminal (whom Jesus would immediately declare righteous, Luke 23:43) said of their punishments, "we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong" (Luke 23:41). What did this forgiven criminal, this newly justified man, say about the death penalty? Bottom line: the criminals were getting their just punishment. The dying criminal knew the truth, as he said, "we indeed" are "justly" punished.
* Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities... For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Rom. 13:1, 3
* For [the governing authority] is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Rom. 13:4
A sword is not used for scourging but for killing.
Jesus Did Not Repeal The Law
Without the law, lawlessness cannot exist. Yet as Christ said, "because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold" (Mat. 24:12). Christ will throw "those who practice lawlessness... into the furnace of fire" (Mat. 13:41-42).
* "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets... Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great..." Mat. 5:17-19
* And Jesus said to him, "See that you tell no one; but go your way, show yourself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded as a testimony to them." Mat. 8:4
* "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do..." Mat. 23:2-3
* [Jesus said,] "Did not Moses give you the law, yet none of you keeps the law? ... Moses therefore gave you circumcision (not that it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath. If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath, so that the law of Moses should not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made a man completely well on the Sabbath?" John 7:19-23
Some argue that all this changed after the resurrection. Yet after His resurrection, Jesus said:
* "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations... teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you." Mat. 28:19-20
The law was still in force during the life of Christ. It was fulfilled and ceased to be in force at the death of Jesus because the law was replaced by the law of salvation for which he died.
* "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets... Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great..." Mat. 5:17-19
Has Heaven and Earth passed away yet? Didn't think so... But just in case... Jesus said quite plainly in the first part that he had NO intention of destroying Moses's law whatsoever.
He fulfilled the law and mankind that accepts Jesus is made anew, i.e., heaven and earth do pass away.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.
What a great day that will be...
"How do you justify the murder? Because the kid did something stupid? 95% of adults will say they did stupid things as teenagers"
... did many stupid things as a young person and luckily no one shot me. I hope they catch the arse exit and string him or her up. No, murder is not the appropriate response for a stupid act from another. Keep that up and see how fast states turn on CCW holders.
I bet when the catch the murdering SOB he has a record a mile long. I doubt a CCW (Certified Good Guy) Holder would jeapodize their card over an egg.
Ah... so he wasn't out assaulting others? Or did you miss that part?
His life was not worthless!
Really? You knew him that well? Or was this behavior a sign of things to come? If he's out at 12:30 AM throwing objects at moving cars, then just maybe this is the type of person we'd end up having to incarcerate after he'd raped/murdered someone later on... Negligence implies he was carelessly tossing eggs around instead of specifically targeting an actual victim.
You've been excusing murder and condoning it for the slighest infraction of the law.
Screw the law. He violated the equal Rights of another. Did his victim ask to have his vehicle attacked? That was the initial act that lead to his death. Without it, the kid would still be alive.
Since you have no respect for the letter of the law, or the spirit of it, your argument is vacuous and it appears you are simply speaking as an animal.
The "spirit" of any law in the US was to be the equal protection of all of our rights. Including not being attacked after midnight by some punk. Only a "liberal" would excuse the actions of the initiating criminal.
So liberal of you to excuse the little criminal for initiating this action in the first place. Maybe he just needed a hug? A rousing round of "kum-by-yah" maybe?
If that is all you got out of my answers, there may be a certain amount of futility in trying to respond to you.
However...
No. I have no desire to murder anyone. That is not the point. The point is, I have a right to go through life without being attacked. If I am attacked, I have a right to defend myself, my family, and my property. Ostensibily, my defensive action would prove such that said criminal will never attack me again. If that means his death, then so be it. Do we really need to keep petty criminals alive to become even worse criminals after a life in and out of our legal system?
Is that what you really want? For that is what you are implying. that people should not retaliate when attacked. That they should just take it and hope the cops can catch up with their attackes later. How far does your idiot pacifism extend? Egging? Setting fire to your garage? Sexual assault? Torture? Terrorist attacks?
How far does your cowardice extend?
I didn't see where Jesus supported it at all. You quoted Matt 15:3-4 as follows. "Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? For God commanded, saying... `He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.' But you say..." This is taken completely out of context. The full meaning can be seen when the full passage is given.
Matt 15:3-9
Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, 'Honor your father and mother'[Exodus 20:12; Deut. 5:16] and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'[Exodus 21:17; Lev. 20:9] But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,' he is not to 'honor his father' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
" 'These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.'[Isaiah 29:13]"
Notice Jesus is not addressing the death penalty at all. What He is addressing is the fact that the Pharisees and teachers of the law have demanded that a father(or mother), not be honored. They said God should be honored and that's all He mentioned. The death penalty was not addressed and that was done on purpose. It was done so that men were left to expose their hearts.
You also gave... " * "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets... Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great..." Mat. 5:17-19
Has Heaven and Earth passed away yet? Didn't think so... But just in case... Jesus said quite plainly in the first part that he had NO intention of destroying Moses's law whatsoever."
Well, let's see! Matt 19:3-9
Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?"
"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'[Gen. 1:27] and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'[Gen 2:24]? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."
"Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?"
Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."
John 8:1-11
But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"
"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."
Notice hear that Jesus made a correction in the law given by Moses. God desires mercy. Matt 1-8
At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, "Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath."
He answered, "Haven't you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. Or haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent? I tell you that one greater than the temple is here. If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,'[Hosea 6:6] you would not have condemned the innocent. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."
...and God desires love. Matt 22:34-
Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[Deut 6:5] This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[Lev. 19:18] All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
All the Law and the Prophets! From what I see in what God said, it is in one's character and what is in one's heart that's important. That concept is contained in the verse from Matt 5 you stopped short of posting. Matt 5:20
"For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."
When He taught men to pray, He said in Matt 6:12 "Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors."
John 13:8-17 "No," said Peter, "you shall never wash my feet." Jesus answered, "Unless I wash you, you have no part with me."
"Then, Lord," Simon Peter replied, "not just my feet but my hands and my head as well!"
Jesus answered, "A person who has had a bath needs only to wash his feet; his whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you." For he knew who was going to betray him, and that was why he said not every one was clean.
When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. "Do you understand what I have done for you?" he asked them. "You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am. Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another's feet. I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.
The person of God is the Holy Spirit. He came here to teach the what the law means and what He values. He obviously did not desire, or promote the death penalty. What He desires is that men follow the Holy Spirit, not the hardness of heart found in the Mosaic law.
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