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Bush doesn't think America should be an actual place [Tancredo and WND stuff words into Bush's mouth
WorldNetDaily.com ^ | November 19, 2006 | Joe Kovacs

Posted on 11/19/2006 3:30:50 PM PST by A. Pole

Tancredo says president believes nation should be merely 'idea' without borders

PALM BEACH, Fla. – President Bush believes America should be more of an idea than an actual place, a Republican congressman told WND in an exclusive interview.

"People have to understand what we're talking about here. The president of the United States is an internationalist," said Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo. "He is going to do what he can to create a place where the idea of America is just that – it's an idea. It's not an actual place defined by borders. I mean this is where this guy is really going."

Tancredo lashed out at the White House's lack of action in securing U.S. borders, and said efforts to merge the U.S. with both Mexico and Canada is not a fantasy.

[...]

He pointed to Florida's largest city as an example of how the nature of America can be changed by uncontrolled immigration.

"Look at what has happened to Miami. It has become a Third World country," he said. "You just pick it up and take it and move it someplace. You would never know you're in the United States of America. You would certainly say you're in a Third World country."

He said quickly changing demographics can cause big problems, and specifically cited the "Islamization of Europe" in recent years which has led to conflict across the continent.

[...]

(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...


TOPICS: Conspiracy
KEYWORDS: aliens; amnesty; borders; illegal; illegalaliens; immigration; liarsandlies; mentallyillforreal; nuttybush; nuttytancreado; schizophrenia; shutuptom; thisthreadisowned; wnd
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To: zbigreddogz
I'm part of that group who believes in free trade and free markets

Ok I will put you down as a two then. Now leave me alone, of course if you are a one, you probably won't.

141 posted on 11/20/2006 5:45:04 PM PST by itsahoot (If the GOP does not do something about immigration, immigration will do something about the GOP)
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To: B4Ranch

"I think a lot of these Freepers who refuse to even peek without their R Party blinders on are going to get the crap shocked out of them when the NAU and the comprehensive amnesty plan actually come together.

There will be a lot of 'How could I have been so stupid' utterings going on."

The final slap in the face happens when Bush and the Democratic majority work together to bring about amnesty for illegals - cast as "comprehensive immigration reform plan" -yet still the Bots will find some reason to justify it. Funny how those like Tancredo find the connection between illegal immigration and NAFTA, courageously vote aginst CAFTA, courageously speak out against the North American Union - and as usual he's labeled as an archaic nutcase by both the new age liberals and so-called conservatives. This isn't hard to figure out.


142 posted on 11/20/2006 6:01:23 PM PST by TheeOhioInfidel
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To: zbigreddogz
in·va·sion (n-vzhn) Pronunciation Key Audio pronunciation of "invasion" [P] n. 1. The act of invading, especially the entrance of an armed force into a territory to conquer. 2. A large-scale onset of something injurious or harmful, such as a disease. 3. An intrusion or encroachment.

Typical of a socialist to ignore 2/3's of the definition. Which of the two parts of that definition in bold DON'T apply to the illegals? They are a cancer (hence the arguments, fights, marches by foreigners on our soil) on our society. And, they are clearly an encroachment and an intrusion.

They are not armed forces. They are not intending to conqur. It is not, on a large scale, harmful.

Twelve million or more is not a large scale? You have clearly shown your stripes and your purposeful ignorance. You are for illegals.

So you are thus incapable of demeaing blue collar workers? No, actually, you can still do that, regardless. Ever heard of the concept of self-lothing? You could be an outhouse cleaner for all I care, I know demeaning language when I see it.

Don't quit you day job. Your attempt at analysis is pathetic.

That said, we aren't discussing what to do with immigrants that are already here, that's a totally separate issue from guest workers, which need not be immigrants that have already come here illegally. If we are throwing around insults, anybody who graduated from the 4th grade would understand that.

Wait, I thought you were talking about a guest worker plan. Now you are not?

Pure socialist thinking again. Calling them immigrants when they are illegal aliens.

Immigrants who come and work cheaply create greater efficiency, which leads to greater output, which leads to greater wealth, etc. Don't believe me, believe Alan Greenspan who said this repeatedly.

Again. They are not immigrants they are illegal aliens.

I am not against legal immigration. Saying so is a blatant lie on your part. I offered you a proprosal here and you completely ignored it. Why? Does it not fit your demographic?

143 posted on 11/20/2006 6:15:30 PM PST by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote.)
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse
"Why should I care what that draft-dodging blowhard Tancredo says?"

Cheney got a deferment to avoid service in Vietnam.

Are you going to call him a "draft-dodger" too, or do you only reserve that for conservative Republican Congressmen you detest?
144 posted on 11/20/2006 9:39:19 PM PST by EnochPowellWasRight
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To: raybbr
Typical of a socialist to ignore 2/3's of the definition. Which of the two parts of that definition in bold DON'T apply to the illegals? They are a cancer (hence the arguments, fights, marches by foreigners on our soil) on our society. And, they are clearly an encroachment and an intrusion.

Twelve million or more is not a large scale? You have clearly shown your stripes and your purposeful ignorance. You are for illegals.

You obviously aren't interested in real discussion. You are purposefully taking my sentences out of context to try to 'win' the arguement.

I didn't say it wasn't large scale. Read the sentence. What I SAID was, by and large, it wasn't HARMFUL, which gets rid of #2 as well as corrects your reading comprehention problem that lead to your second paragraph. Yes, there are harms, but the economic benefits of immigration and the demographic benefits of immigration, illegal or legal, are greater then the costs.

That said, we would have a lot fewer unnecessary costs, which would be better for us as well as Mexico, if we could make sure the immigrants coming weren't criminals, if we made sure they had jobs, and it wouldn't threaten our rule of law, as I admit, having unenforcable laws does threaten our rule of law, if we allowed them to come here legally.

Wait, I thought you were talking about a guest worker plan. Now you are not?

For someone who attacks his opponent's reading comprehention, you sure seem to have a problem with it yourself. I was responding to YOU trying to change the topic from guest worker programs to 'Amnesty', which are separate issues. YOU did that, not me.

Pure socialist thinking again. Calling them immigrants when they are illegal aliens.

Even if they are illegal aliens, which again, YOU, not I, are changing the subject, AGAIN, they are still immigrants. That is why it's called illegal IMMIGRATION.

You continue to ignore my arguements and change the topic at every point. If it makes you feel good, great. It makes you look like a fool to everyone else.

If you are only against illegal immigrants, there is no reason for you to oppose a guest worker program, as that is allowing for more LEGAL immigrants. LEGAL immigrants. LEGAL immigrants. Will it help you understand this incredibly simple concept if I repeat it 10 more times?

If you want to oppose a guest worker program, which is what this conversation started out to be about before you changed the topic, you can oppose it for a variety of reasons. What you cannot do, is oppose it because you oppose illegal immigration, because it would not be illegal immigration, but legal immigration.

I don't know how to make it simpler then that. I'm guessing you'll ignore what I'm saying and take my words out of context and continue rattling off something about illegal immigration or Amnesty. Which has nothing to do with the subject at hand. But that won't stop you. You've got your mind made up, and you aren't letting facts get in your way.

145 posted on 11/20/2006 11:13:36 PM PST by zbigreddogz
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To: itsahoot

Actually, I'm joined by most Republicans. Not the most vocal, I'll grant you that, but most Republicans favor guest worker programs. Poll after poll shows that. The only way the anti-immigration side can get a poll to say something different is if they use the word 'Amnesty', which has nothing to do with it, as a guest worker program is a separate issue, but they don't let that get in the way, because they don't want it and they know 'Amnesty' polls poorly while 'Guest workers' don't.

I'm also joined by such folks as George W. Bush, Sam Brownback, and the CATO institute.

Excuse me if I don't feel bad about it.


146 posted on 11/20/2006 11:18:19 PM PST by zbigreddogz
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To: zbigreddogz
Even if they are illegal aliens, which again, YOU, not I, are changing the subject, AGAIN, they are still immigrants. That is why it's called illegal IMMIGRATION.

A very liberal way of thinking. That is a misuse of the term. Under the law they are illegal aliens. I know it's impossible for you to consider them illegals but that is the fact.

This is what you posted:

in·va·sion (n-vzhn) Pronunciation Key Audio pronunciation of "invasion" [P] n. 1. The act of invading, especially the entrance of an armed force into a territory to conquer. 2. A large-scale onset of something injurious or harmful, such as a disease. 3. An intrusion or encroachment.

You only wanted to use one part of the definition and then you say "I didn't say it wasn't large scale. Read the sentence. What I SAID was, by and large, it wasn't HARMFUL, which gets rid of #2 as well as corrects your reading comprehention problem that lead to your second paragraph. Yes, there are harms, but the economic benefits of immigration and the demographic benefits of immigration, illegal or legal, are greater then the costs."

Talk about twisting words.

Not only that but there have been several studies which shows they are harmful. You just don't want to admit it.

Listen, you clearly are a socialist who doesn't believe in borders and you are not willing to speak honestly. Unless you call them illegal alien and not immigrants there is no point in continuing this. Your whole arguement is bases on a lie. And, if you are willing to lie to make your point it's a waste time.

Will you be confessing your sin of lying this Saturday when you go to confession?

147 posted on 11/21/2006 3:49:11 AM PST by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote.)
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To: EnochPowellWasRight
Are you going to call him a "draft-dodger" too, or do you only reserve that for conservative Republican Congressmen you detest?

Either Tancredo's too crazy to be anything but an incompetent ward of the state, or he lied to the draft board.

Pick one.

148 posted on 11/21/2006 4:19:14 AM PST by BeHoldAPaleHorse (I dare call it treason.)
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To: zbigreddogz
I'm also part of the group that is repulsed by the notion that somehow only people born in America are capable of appreciating the benefits of free markets, free trade, hard work and self-governance.

Of course they can, oh master of the obvious. The point being is that they aren't developing their own, but sneaking in to our country and breaking ours. Our reasoning is typical of the globalist who will scream about product dumping out of one side of his mouth while demanding wage controls in the form of a guest worker program out of the other.

149 posted on 11/21/2006 4:38:27 AM PST by Old_Mil (http://www.constitutionparty.com/)
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To: zbigreddogz
but most Republicans favor guest worker programs. Poll after poll shows that. The only way the anti-immigration side can get a poll to say something different is if they use the word 'Amnesty', which has nothing to do with it, as a guest worker program is a separate issue, but they don't let that get in the way,

How did that work for us last election? Oh! Never Mind......................

Again I refer you to the Luntz report, and you do not answer questions, only pontificate, about how correct you are, sort of Bob Dole like.

150 posted on 11/21/2006 4:58:34 AM PST by itsahoot (If the GOP does not do something about immigration, immigration will do something about the GOP)
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse
"Either Tancredo's too crazy to be anything but an incompetent ward of the state, or he lied to the draft board. "

There's a third option - he's over it.
151 posted on 11/21/2006 5:11:25 AM PST by EnochPowellWasRight
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To: EnochPowellWasRight
There's a third option - he's over it.

Amazing how many people with a 4-F medical problem were miraculously "over it" when the draft ended.

152 posted on 11/21/2006 5:26:03 AM PST by BeHoldAPaleHorse (I dare call it treason.)
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse

"Amazing how many people with a 4-F medical problem were miraculously "over it" when the draft ended."

Many men with families went overseas too...

I believe the VP had a family deferment.

Do you always use Democrat arguments?


153 posted on 11/21/2006 5:33:53 AM PST by EnochPowellWasRight
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse

What potential candidates or candidates for President of the United States in 2008 do you believe would make a good president?

What members of the United States Senate or the United States House of Representatives do you admire?

Did you support passage of S.2611, the Senate's immigration reform bill?


154 posted on 11/21/2006 7:15:54 AM PST by arnoldpalmerfan (Tancredo for President 2008)
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To: Ladycalif

What potnetial candidate or canidates for president in 2008 do you believe would make a good president?


155 posted on 11/21/2006 7:26:20 AM PST by arnoldpalmerfan (Tancredo for President 2008)
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To: zbigreddogz

Cong. Tancredo has never said that a bill that solely provides for incrased legal immigration. Cong. Tancredo does believe that bills granting legal status to millions of illegal aliens and allowing them a path to citizenship are amnesty bills.

Did you support S.2611, the Senate immigration reform bill? Do you believe that millions of illegal aliens should be given legal status and a path to citizenship?

Cong. Tancredo supported and voted for H.R.4437, the House's border security bill. It was overwhlemingly supported by House Republicans. It did not provide legal status and a path to citizenship for illegal aliens.

In case you missed it, illegal entry into the United States is a federal crime. It can be a felony or a misdemeanor depending on the circumstances of the crime. Rewarding millions of illegal aliens that committed the federal crime of illegal entry into the United States with legal status and a path to citizenship is amnesty.


156 posted on 11/21/2006 8:01:59 AM PST by arnoldpalmerfan (Tancredo for President 2008)
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To: zbigreddogz

"Actually, I'm joined by most Republicans. Not the most vocal, I'll grant you that, but most Republicans favor guest worker programs. Poll after poll shows that. The only way the anti-immigration side can get a poll to say something different is if they use the word 'Amnesty', which has nothing to do with it, as a guest worker program is a separate issue, but they don't let that get in the way, because they don't want it and they know 'Amnesty' polls poorly while 'Guest workers' don't."

I want to see these polls. My GOP state rep in NE Ohio ran on a heavy anti-illegal immigration platform and won hands down in a district at least 50% Democrat. And a guest worker program IMO is somewhat connected to amnesty, if indeed people who came here illegally and work for substandard wages are reclassified as guest workers. A guest worker program is also connected to amnesty if the border is not controlled beforehand, since it tells everyone who came before illegally that they paved the way for even increasing numbers who can come as guest workers. I don't understand how anyone can observe the California economy, for example, with it's plethora of illegals monopolizing so many of the contracting jobs that once went to indigenous Americans, and not think things are screwed up. It's not xenophobia to put indigenous Americans and legal immigrants first.


157 posted on 11/21/2006 8:04:23 AM PST by TheeOhioInfidel
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To: EnochPowellWasRight
I believe the VP had a family deferment.

I don't begrudge family deferments in the slightest. Tommy T was single at the time, as I was. And Cheney still had his family after the draft ended, where Tom Tancredo somehow managed to magically become well just when the draft ended.

158 posted on 11/21/2006 9:05:36 AM PST by BeHoldAPaleHorse (I dare call it treason.)
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To: zbigreddogz

"If you are only against illegal immigrants, there is no reason for you to oppose a guest worker program, as that is allowing for more LEGAL immigrants. LEGAL immigrants. LEGAL immigrants."

We already have a 'guest worker program', and aside from a North American Union/SPP, the whole reason the OBL supports 'comprehensive immigration reform' is to gain AMNESTY for the illegals AND their employers. So go ahead and make 40,000 illegal aliens our new LEGAL immigrants, but don't forget their family members, @ 4 x 40,0000 who will be welcome here as well....this is what you're asking for:


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4094926727128068265&q=roy+beck


159 posted on 11/22/2006 5:51:02 AM PST by Kimberly GG (Tancredo '08 www.firecoalition.com/www.unitedpatriotsofamerica.com)
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To: Admin Moderator

"FYI, a moderator changed the title, not the poster."

I guess a mod just hasn't gotten around to correcting Dane-is the Menace's titles below:
`Tancredo, Gilcrest, etc: What are they smoking' and `Immigration Blowhards'?


160 posted on 11/22/2006 5:51:55 PM PST by OkieDoke
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