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Just some thoughts, reactions welcome and hoped for.
1 posted on 09/14/2006 8:54:16 PM PDT by tricky_k_1972
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To: tricky_k_1972

Just for purposes of furthering your comparison, which Jews beheaded contractors and reporters in the '30s?


2 posted on 09/14/2006 8:55:50 PM PDT by Xenalyte (Truly, the road to enlightenment is like unto half a mile of broken glass.)
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To: tricky_k_1972

You asked for opinions.

Here's mine - Some misplaced sympathy you have there (IMO); comparisons between the Jews and the Muslims are not fair.


3 posted on 09/14/2006 8:56:40 PM PDT by indcons (Freepmail "indcons" to get on/off the military history ping list.)
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To: tricky_k_1972
We are the followers of our religions and we bear the responsibility for those actions and what we do In His Name.

Yes, well, we (generalizing) have been told to love our enemy. They have been told to kill the infidel. Big difference.

4 posted on 09/14/2006 8:57:17 PM PDT by StarCMC ("So what was the price to betray us - Judas?" - SGT Mark Russak to Traitor Murtha)
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To: tricky_k_1972

I once lived in Dearborn, aka "Dearbornistan."

I know that 99% of the Muslims that I met were good people, people that are hard-working good people who made great neighbors.

I also know that the people in the Middle East have almost nothing in common with one another. Arabs vs Persians vs Kurds, or Jews vs Muslims vs Christians (and Hindus?)... you get the idea.

The trick is to condemn the sub-cultures, and religious factions, that cause us harm, while welcoming those who are really intent on being our friends.

YEs, you may flame away... but I'm a big boy, and I can defend myself.


5 posted on 09/14/2006 8:58:02 PM PDT by TWohlford
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To: tricky_k_1972
My problem isn't with Muslims generally. I know a few and they're pretty cool. I do, however, have a problem with Islam.

I'm not a big Christian myself, so the most I can do is "convert" the Muslims I know to atheism. Hey, at least they aren't Mohammedans anymore.

7 posted on 09/14/2006 8:59:06 PM PDT by Gordongekko909 (Mark 5:9)
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To: tricky_k_1972

If all the Muslims in the world suddenly died, I wouldn't care.


9 posted on 09/14/2006 9:00:24 PM PDT by blam
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To: tricky_k_1972
We do not blame children for learning from their teachers that 2 + 2 = 5, nor should we blame all of the Islamic society for the radicalism taught by madmen in their midst to their children.

Wrong. They have no choice or else the fanatics will kill them too. You think parents have the rights to tell the Whabbi freaks they CAN'T teach their children this garbage?

If so you live in a fantasy world. The only way to FORCE (and they need to be forced) these cowardly Muslims (like the Saudi and Jordanian and Egyptian royals) to clamp down on the fanatical radicals of Islam in their own country is to threaten their lives ourselves.

It's clear they won't fight it on their own.

10 posted on 09/14/2006 9:02:05 PM PDT by Fledermaus (If the GOP keeps the Senate with a 53-54 majority can they give the Dems McCain?)
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To: tricky_k_1972
All I have to say is this: History is littered with nations who were blessed until they failed to nip in the bud any semblance of anti-semitism. Spain under Torquemada and of course Nazi Germany are just a couple from recent history.

Thanks for your post. I am also disturbed about these recent rumblings...
11 posted on 09/14/2006 9:03:01 PM PDT by judyyama
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To: tricky_k_1972; USF; Fred Nerks; Former Dodger; AmericanArchConservative; Dark Skies
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I will have to pray and meditate on this for a while.

I will start with...I don't hate Muslims, but I hate Islam!

14 posted on 09/14/2006 9:05:38 PM PDT by jan in Colorado (Never Forget! Never Retreat! Never Give Up!)
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To: tricky_k_1972

There is a few flaws in your argument, during WWII The Jews weren't trying to kill us all to further their religion and the Japanese Americans that were interned enlisted and fought with a bravery for this country that has never been matched by any other single ethnic group.

Islam has as a core belief the idea that all other peoples of the world must submit to islamic rule or be killed.


15 posted on 09/14/2006 9:08:09 PM PDT by usmcobra (I sing Karaoke the way it was meant to be sung, drunk, badly and in Japanese, that why I don't sing.)
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To: tricky_k_1972
"We can either react like some of our Fore Fathers did and start up the prison camps (Japanese Americans), take away their rights and debase ourselves..."

When my father was a small child, my grandparents lived in Daytona Beach. During WWII, they had black outs to prevent the Submarines offshore from sighting the tankers and freighters traveling up and down the coast. The Japanese were not as big of an issue as the Germans were in that time and place. Many Germans were also placed into internment camps, however, there was a wealthy grove owner that was German and he was left alone due to his status. He was an upstanding member of the local community and attended church regularly with many of the local politicians. He was also a family friend and he used to take my dad for "horsey rides" by bouncing him on his knee.

One day this fine upstanding pillar of the community disappeared. After the local authorities searched for him, they located a short wave transmitter in one of his pump houses in his grove. He was a spy. He sent info to the German subs off the coast regarding the ships he sighted traveling off the coast and many were destroyed resulting in loss of life and cargo. There was evidence of an inflatable raft found later which he used to row out to a sub to repatriate to Germany.

So, I have no idea how to determine where somebody's loyalty lies, but my family taught me a good lesson. You can't judge a book by it's cover and you can't trust your enemy. No matter how nice they are.

16 posted on 09/14/2006 9:13:40 PM PDT by DocRock
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To: tricky_k_1972
"We do not blame children for learning from their teachers that 2 + 2 = 5"

You may not blame them but reality will show no pity.


17 posted on 09/14/2006 9:14:52 PM PDT by I see my hands (_8(|)
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To: tricky_k_1972


19 posted on 09/14/2006 9:21:05 PM PDT by onyx (1 Billion Muslims -- IF only 10% are radical, that's still 100 Million who want to kill us.)
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To: tricky_k_1972
We as Christians (sorry for generalizing) have many atrocities in our own past history to be ashamed of, we grew out of it and now are trying to pass that learning on to others.

We can not expect to teach the great values of our society if we are also damning them all to hell, doesn’t work all that well.

Saying that “All the Muslims Are to Blame" is just as bad as saying that "All the JEEWWWWSSSS are to blame"

Sorry. I'm not buying your moral equivalence.

21 posted on 09/14/2006 9:23:42 PM PDT by sauropod (Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." PJO)
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To: tricky_k_1972
I think what you have here is a portion of FReepers that are very vocal when it comes to condemning all Muslims without distinction and quick to jump the gun in suspecting Muslims whenever something happens, despite a lack of evidence (case in point, the Columbine-influenced Goth gunman at Dawson College).

The rest are either disinclined to say anything against it, or are quickly condemned as apologists or naive when they do.
23 posted on 09/14/2006 9:26:10 PM PDT by Ex-Dem
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To: tricky_k_1972; dennisw

YOU WORRY ME...

I've been trying to say this since 9-11, but you worry me. I wish you didn't. I wish when I walked down the streets of this country that I love, that your color and culture still blended with the beautiful human landscape we enjoy in this country. But you don't blend in anymore. I notice you, and it worries me. I notice you because I can't help it anymore. People from your homelands, professing to be Muslims, have been attacking and killing my fellow citizens and our friends, for more than 20 years now. I don't fully understand their grievances and hate, but I know that nothing can justify the inhumanity of their attacks.

On September 11, nineteen ARAB-MUSLIMS hijacked four jetliners in my country. They cut the throats of women, in front of children, and brutally stabbed others to death. They took control of those planes and crashed them into buildings, killing thousands of proud fathers, loving sons, wise grandparents, elegant daughters, best friends, favorite coaches, fearless public servants, and children's mothers. The Palestinians celebrated and Iraqis were overjoyed - as was most of the Arab world.

So I notice you now. I don't want to be worried. I don't want to be consumed by the same rage and hate and prejudice that has destroyed the soul of these terrorists. But I need your help. As a rational American, trying to protect my country and family in an irrational and unsafe world, I must know how to tell the difference between you, and the Arab/Muslim terrorist.

How do I differentiate between the true Arab/Muslim-Americans, and the Arab/Muslims in our communities who are attending our schools, enjoying our parks, and living in OUR communities under the protection of OUR Constitution, while they plot the next attack that will slaughter these same good neighbors and children? The events of September 11th changed the answer. It is not my responsibility to determine which of you embraces our great country, with ALL of its religions, with ALL of its different citizens, with all of its faults. It is time for every Arab/Muslim in this country to determine it for me.

I want to know, I demand to know, and I have a right to know, whether or not you love America. Do you pledge allegiance to its flag? Do you proudly display it in front of your house, or on your car? Do you pray in your many daily prayers that Allah will bless this nation, that He will protect and prosper it? Or do you pray that Allah will destroy it in one of your "Jihads"? Are you thankful for the freedom that only this nation affords? A freedom that was paid for by the blood of hundreds of thousands of patriots, who gave their lives for this country? Are you willing to preserve this freedom by paying the ultimate sacrifice? Do you love America? If this is your commitment, then I need YOU to start letting ME know about it.

Your Muslim leaders in this nation should be flooding the media at this time with hard facts about your faith, and what hard actions you are taking as a community and as a religion, to protect the United States of America. Please, no more benign overtures of regret for the death of the innocent, because I worry about who you regard as innocent. No more benign overtures of condemnation for the unprovoked attacks, because I worry about what is unprovoked to you. I am not interested in any more sympathy...I am only interested in action. What will you do for America - our great country - at this time of crisis, at this time of war?

I want to see Arab-Muslims waving the AMERICAN flag in the streets. I want to hear you chanting "Allah Bless America .." I want to see young Arab/Muslim men enlisting in the military. I want to see a commitment of money, time, and emotion to the victims of this butchering, and to this nation as a whole. The FBI has a list of over 400 people they want to talk to regarding the WTC attack. Many of these people live and socialize in Muslim communities. You know them. You know where they are.

Hand them over to us, now! But I have seen little even approaching this sort of action. Instead I have seen an already closed and secretive community close even tighter. You have disappeared from the streets. You have posted armed security guards at your facilities. You have threatened lawsuits. You have screamed for protection from reprisals.

The very few Arab/Muslim representatives who HAVE appeared in the media were defensive and equivocating. They seemed more concerned with making sure that the United States proves who was responsible, before taking action. They seemed more concerned with protecting their fellow Muslims from violence directed towards them in the United States and abroad, than they did with supporting our country and denouncing "leaders" like Khadafi, Hussein, Farrakhan, and Arafat. If the true teachings of Islam proclaim tolerance and peace and love for all people - then I want chapter and verse from the Koran, and statements from popular Muslim leaders to back it up. What good is it, if the teachings in the Koran are good and pure and true, when your "leaders" are teaching fanatical interpretations, terrorism, and intolerance?

It matters little how good Islam SHOULD BE - if large numbers of the world's Muslims interpret the teachings of Mohammed incorrectly, and adhere to a degenerative form of the religion: a form that has been demonstrated to us over and over again. A form whose structure is built upon a foundation of violence, death, and suicide. A form whose members are recruited from the prisons around the world. A form whose members (some as young as five years old) are seen day after day, week in and week out, year after year, marching in the streets around the world, burning effigies of our presidents, burning the American flag, shooting weapons into the air. A form whose members convert from a peaceful religion, only to take up arms against the great United States of America, the country of their birth. A form whose rules are so twisted, that their traveling members refuse to show their faces at airport security checkpoints, in the name of Islam.

Do you and your fellow Muslims hate us because our women proudly show their faces in public, rather than cover up like a shameful whore? Do you and your fellow Muslims hate us because we drink wine with dinner, or celebrate Christmas? Do you and you fellow Muslims hate us because we have befriended Israel, the ONLY civilized democratic nation in the entire Middle East?

And if you and your fellow Muslims hate us, then why in the world are you even here? Are you here to take our money? Are you here to undermine our peace and stability? Are you here to destroy us? If so, I want you to leave I want you to go back to your desert sandpit, where women are treated like rats and dogs. I want you to take your religion, your friends, and your family back to your Islamic extremists, and STAY THERE! We will NEVER give in to your influence, your retarded mentality, your twisted, violent, intolerant religion. We will NEVER allow the attacks of September 11, or any others for that matter, to take away that which is so precious to us: Our rights under the greatest Constitution in the world.

I want to know where every Arab/ Muslim in this country stands, and I think it is my right, and the right of every true citizen of this country to demand it. A right paid for by the blood of thousands of my brothers and sisters, who died protecting the very Constitution that is protecting you and your family. I am pleading with you to let me know. I want you here as my brother, my neighbor, my friend, as a fellow American. But there can be no gray areas or ambivalence regarding your allegiance and it is up to you to show me where you stand.

Until then, you worry me.

John Maniscalco is "said" to be a Captain with American Airlines.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1698999/posts


24 posted on 09/14/2006 9:29:05 PM PDT by onyx (1 Billion Muslims -- IF only 10% are radical, that's still 100 Million who want to kill us.)
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To: tricky_k_1972
"We do not blame children for learning from their teachers that 2 + 2 = 5"

We don't, but once they come of age, they don't have that excuse anymore. In our case, that's when someone turns 18; in their case, apparently, it's when they get their first kill, or learn to flip the switch on a suicide vest.

My point being is we judge people of a completely different culture by our own standards of comportment at our peril. That's how soldiers go to their deaths by being their normal, friendly selves and walk into ambushes with "friendly" locals.

It makes us feel good that we're treating everyone the same, but really, it's a suicidal point of view, when the enemy is BETTING on our good natures.

26 posted on 09/14/2006 9:37:00 PM PDT by Darkwolf377
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To: tricky_k_1972; Xenalyte

If Hitler had thought to call Nazism a religion, he'd have won.


29 posted on 09/14/2006 9:42:03 PM PDT by Lazamataz (Islam is a perversion of faith, a lie against human spirit, an obscenity shouted in the face of G_d)
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To: tricky_k_1972

I doubt my reaction is welcomed. To dare compare the Jewish people with the Islamic ones is reprehensible to me. I take exception to this and I would hope others will as well.


31 posted on 09/14/2006 9:46:01 PM PDT by ladyinred
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To: tricky_k_1972

The Islamofascists are the most serious threat to the world today, but it's not becasuse they're Muslims. It's because they're Fascists. They are the modern equivalent of Naziism. They must be dealt with the same way.

But to condemn all Muslims becasue of the actions of the Islamofascists is teh saem as condemning all Germans for the actions of the Nazis, all Italians for teh actions of Mussolini, all Chinees peple for what the Communist Chinese hve done (and they are right up there in the list of major threats, BTS), or all Hindus for the violence of the RSS. It's like blaming all white guys for Timoghty McVeigh or all black folks for the violence that the black militants carry out. It jsut makes no sense.


36 posted on 09/14/2006 9:52:43 PM PDT by S.S. Monkeyface
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