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Probing Question: What happened before the Big Bang?
Pennsylvania State University ^ | 03 August 2006 | Barbara Kennedy

Posted on 08/04/2006 4:26:21 AM PDT by PatrickHenry

The question of what happened before the Big Bang long has frustrated cosmologists, both amateur and professional.

Though Einstein's theory of general relativity does an excellent job of describing the universe almost back to its beginning, near the Big Bang matter becomes so dense that relativity breaks down, says Penn State physicist Abhay Ashtekar. "Beyond that point, we need to apply quantum tools that were not available to Einstein."

Now Ashtekar and two of his post-doctoral researchers, Tomasz Pawlowski and Parmpreet Singh, have done just that. Using a theory called loop quantum gravity, they have developed a mathematical model that skates right up to the Big Bang -- and steps through it. On the other side, Ashtekar says, exists another universe with space-time geometry similar to our own, except that instead of expanding, it is shrinking. "In place of a classical Big Bang, there is in fact a quantum Bounce," he says.

Loop quantum gravity, one of the leading approaches to the unification of general relativity with quantum physics, was pioneered at the Institute of Gravitational Physics and Geometry at Penn State, which Ashtekar directs. The theory posits that space-time geometry itself has a discrete "atomic" structure, Ashtekar explains. Instead of the familiar space-time continuum, the fabric of space is made up of one-dimensional quantum threads. Near the Big Bang, this fabric is violently torn, and these quantum properties cause gravity to become repulsive, rather than attractive.

While the idea of another universe existing prior to the Big Bang has been proposed before, he adds, this is the first mathematical description that systematically establishes its existence and deduces its space-time geometry.

"Our initial work assumes a homogenous model of our universe," Ashtekar acknowledges. "However, it has given us confidence in the underlying ideas of loop quantum gravity. We will continue to refine the model to better portray the universe as we know it and to better understand the features of quantum gravity."

***

Abhay Ashtekar is holder of the Eberly family chair in physics and director of the Institute for Gravitational Physics and Geometry in the Eberly College of Science. He can be reached at ava1@psu.edu.

The finding reported above was published in Physical Review Letters in May 2006. The research was sponsored by the National Science Foundation, Alexander von Humboldt Foundation, and the Penn State Eberly College of Science.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: bewareofluddites; bigbang; bloodbath; cosmology; fakeatheist; fascistfrannie; generalchat; genesisidolater; goddooditamen; idiotswithgrants; juniorstantrum; origins; phpap; prematurepanspermia; runningwolfspout; stringtheory
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To: freedumb2003
The only thing you see is your own distorted projection
421 posted on 08/05/2006 6:13:11 PM PDT by RunningWolf (2-1 Cav 1975)
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To: RunningWolf
The only thing you see is your own distorted projection

Ah. Ad hominem. Do you have anything besides insults to ad to the discussion?

I can tell by your responses you walk in the footsteps of Jesus. He also insulted people He disagreed with, right?

422 posted on 08/05/2006 6:15:37 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Creation "science" has a final answer--adherence to the scriptures. All other data are discarded.)
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To: freedumb2003
I can tell by your responses you walk in the footsteps of Jesus. He also insulted people He disagreed with, right?

Pardon your ignorance. I can remember one episode on record:

Mt 23:2727"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean."

Don't bring a knife to a gunfight!

423 posted on 08/05/2006 7:04:36 PM PDT by pageonetoo (You'll spot their posts soon enough!)
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To: freedumb2003

Tinman placemarker ...


424 posted on 08/05/2006 7:53:03 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: RunningWolf
When I saw the title to this thread I had high hopes for constructive discussion, what with all the well educated Freepers of science backgrounds. Sadly, the same disease that dominates all the crevo threads has infected this one also. Which is sort of surprising since the topic is so neutral regarding the Creator.
425 posted on 08/05/2006 7:55:57 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: freedumb2003
Ah. Ad hominem. Do you have anything besides insults to ad to the discussion? I can tell by your responses you walk in the footsteps of Jesus. He also insulted people He disagreed with, right?

You can't expect everyone to live up to their professed beliefs - talking the talk is soooo much easier than walking the walk.

426 posted on 08/05/2006 8:05:21 PM PDT by balrog666 (Ignorance is never better than knowledge. - Enrico Fermi)
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To: Coyoteman; sirchtruth
That you don't agree with the theory of evolution does not make it either a religion or a cult.

Science marches on, whether you say yea or nay.

You may have just stated the cause of a lot of the rage we see in so many of the anti-evo posters. Science, including ToE, just doesn't care what their (or anyone else's) opinions/beliefs are. It treats Christianity and Islam with the same deference it shows Shnto and shamanism: "Where's the evidence that this story is true?".

427 posted on 08/05/2006 8:47:02 PM PDT by Virginia-American
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To: pageonetoo; freedumb2003
Don't bring a knife to a gunfight!

Don't bring a comic book to an encyclopedia fight.

428 posted on 08/05/2006 8:59:52 PM PDT by Virginia-American
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To: Virginia-American

If there is rage on either side it stems from condescension and or ridicule methods used by posters. Both sides are becoming quite adept at destroying perfectly good threads with food fights. Meanwhile, those who would like to read the articles and intelligent discussion end up wandering off to something else when the juvenile taunting begin flying to and fro. Fortunately, posters such as PH and Ichy have posted extensive refernce materials on their profile pages, so there's plenty to read when the children start the tantrums.


429 posted on 08/05/2006 9:12:10 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: freedumb2003
I can tell by your responses you walk in the footsteps of Jesus.

I have never said or inferred that at all. That is yet once again more of your own distorted projection.

W.
430 posted on 08/05/2006 9:55:45 PM PDT by RunningWolf (2-1 Cav 1975)
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To: PatrickHenry

Back to you

You gotta love this place. Every nook and cranny of the Bell Curve is well represented.


431 posted on 08/05/2006 9:57:19 PM PDT by RunningWolf (2-1 Cav 1975)
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To: balrog666
What beliefs have I professed?

However I agree with you here (believe it or not) "talking the talk is soooo much easier than walking the walk" So thats why I don't infer nor suggest I am walking the walk

I have consciously walked the walk a time or two in this life, it is a thing that takes the entirety of my being.

And we are all on the walk, consciously or not.

W.
432 posted on 08/05/2006 10:59:35 PM PDT by RunningWolf (2-1 Cav 1975)
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To: Donald Rumsfeld Fan

Conveniently, according to the theory of relativity any frame of reference is acceptable. Pick whichever you like.


433 posted on 08/06/2006 5:08:08 AM PDT by ahayes ("If intelligent design evolved from creationism, then why are there still creationists?"--Quark2005)
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To: PatrickHenry
Every nook and cranny of the Bell Curve is well represented.

Were it not for places like FR, the Normal distribution would be Exp(1/x**3)

434 posted on 08/06/2006 6:12:28 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: RunningWolf
I have never said or inferred that at all. That is yet once again more of your own distorted projection.

I apologise. I thought, based on your posting history, you were a Christian.

Since you are not, I won't hold you to that standard.

435 posted on 08/06/2006 7:23:57 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (Creation "science" has a final answer--adherence to the scriptures. All other data are discarded.)
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To: pageonetoo
Pardon your ignorance. I can remember one episode on record:

Jesus became angry in the temple. But he wasn't insulting. He warning them to become righteous or suffer the consequences.

Don't bring a moped to a car fight.

436 posted on 08/06/2006 7:26:12 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (Creation "science" has a final answer--adherence to the scriptures. All other data are discarded.)
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To: freedumb2003
Since you are not, I won't hold you to that standard.

As previously stated, troll, I do not wish to engage in your foolish games. You are evidently in need of your meds, again. I am not inpressed, and doubt anybody else would be, either, with your mindless giggling.

Since you are so learned, I will just ask you to look up the definition of the word, "puerile". I think it applies to you.

You are cute, but not that cute!

It's interesting that you refer to other people's standards, as if you have any yourself...

437 posted on 08/06/2006 7:47:21 AM PDT by pageonetoo (You'll spot their posts soon enough!)
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To: ahayes
Conveniently, according to the theory of relativity any frame of reference is acceptable. Pick whichever you like.

Define frame in the absence of matter/energy.

438 posted on 08/06/2006 8:15:22 AM PDT by Donald Rumsfeld Fan ("Fake but Accurate": NY Times)
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To: Junior

3: Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4: And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5: For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:


439 posted on 08/06/2006 9:19:19 AM PDT by Creationist (If the earth is old show me your proof. Salvation from the judgment of your sins is free.)
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To: Donald Rumsfeld Fan

Are you assuming an empty universe?


440 posted on 08/06/2006 9:34:55 AM PDT by ahayes ("If intelligent design evolved from creationism, then why are there still creationists?"--Quark2005)
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