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Probing Question: What happened before the Big Bang?
Pennsylvania State University ^ | 03 August 2006 | Barbara Kennedy

Posted on 08/04/2006 4:26:21 AM PDT by PatrickHenry

The question of what happened before the Big Bang long has frustrated cosmologists, both amateur and professional.

Though Einstein's theory of general relativity does an excellent job of describing the universe almost back to its beginning, near the Big Bang matter becomes so dense that relativity breaks down, says Penn State physicist Abhay Ashtekar. "Beyond that point, we need to apply quantum tools that were not available to Einstein."

Now Ashtekar and two of his post-doctoral researchers, Tomasz Pawlowski and Parmpreet Singh, have done just that. Using a theory called loop quantum gravity, they have developed a mathematical model that skates right up to the Big Bang -- and steps through it. On the other side, Ashtekar says, exists another universe with space-time geometry similar to our own, except that instead of expanding, it is shrinking. "In place of a classical Big Bang, there is in fact a quantum Bounce," he says.

Loop quantum gravity, one of the leading approaches to the unification of general relativity with quantum physics, was pioneered at the Institute of Gravitational Physics and Geometry at Penn State, which Ashtekar directs. The theory posits that space-time geometry itself has a discrete "atomic" structure, Ashtekar explains. Instead of the familiar space-time continuum, the fabric of space is made up of one-dimensional quantum threads. Near the Big Bang, this fabric is violently torn, and these quantum properties cause gravity to become repulsive, rather than attractive.

While the idea of another universe existing prior to the Big Bang has been proposed before, he adds, this is the first mathematical description that systematically establishes its existence and deduces its space-time geometry.

"Our initial work assumes a homogenous model of our universe," Ashtekar acknowledges. "However, it has given us confidence in the underlying ideas of loop quantum gravity. We will continue to refine the model to better portray the universe as we know it and to better understand the features of quantum gravity."

***

Abhay Ashtekar is holder of the Eberly family chair in physics and director of the Institute for Gravitational Physics and Geometry in the Eberly College of Science. He can be reached at ava1@psu.edu.

The finding reported above was published in Physical Review Letters in May 2006. The research was sponsored by the National Science Foundation, Alexander von Humboldt Foundation, and the Penn State Eberly College of Science.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: bewareofluddites; bigbang; bloodbath; cosmology; fakeatheist; fascistfrannie; generalchat; genesisidolater; goddooditamen; idiotswithgrants; juniorstantrum; origins; phpap; prematurepanspermia; runningwolfspout; stringtheory
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To: exit82
God spoke and BANG, the universe came into existence.

So very clever! Did you come up with that line yourself?

121 posted on 08/04/2006 11:01:58 AM PDT by Alter Kaker ("Whatever tears one sheds, in the end one always blows one's nose." - Heine)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
"And God said, "Let there be light!"

Actually he said "Hey Gabriel! Watch this...ooops"
122 posted on 08/04/2006 11:04:41 AM PDT by Tiny
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To: sirchtruth
...and for the umteenth time, how did something explode from nothing?

The Book of Nothing: Vacuums, Voids, and the Latest Ideas about the Origins of the Universe explains it all, using quantum mechanics. It's a funny book, too, with lots of puns related to nothing (see what I mean).

123 posted on 08/04/2006 11:04:42 AM PDT by AZLiberty (Creating the <a href="http://clinton.senate.gov">straddle</a> Google bomb one post at a time.)
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To: PatrickHenry

There was no "before" the Big Bang in the classic sense. Time is a function of matter in the universe. Take that away and you deal with the timeless qualities of Consciousness, Being, Mind... God.


124 posted on 08/04/2006 11:07:51 AM PDT by DarkSavant
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To: FreedomCalls

I don't agree. If the Big Bang was something from the inside of the singularity outward then it existed within the singularity.
If it was simply the outside of the singularity opening up and allowing the contents to rush into nothingness then the outside of the singularity existed though it was maintaining time within itself. The inner surface of the outside of the singularity existed where time was contained. Therefore, it existed no matter if time was within the singularity or outside of it.


125 posted on 08/04/2006 11:10:14 AM PDT by em2vn
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To: PatrickHenry

And God said, "Let there be light"............


126 posted on 08/04/2006 11:10:18 AM PDT by AxelPaulsenJr (Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.)
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To: doc30

Replies are a kind of Rorshach test of 'what is your mood right now' based on who were you talking to just before you responded to a post: your wife, your mistress, your neighbor, or your dog.


127 posted on 08/04/2006 11:11:02 AM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the law of the excluded middle)
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To: PatrickHenry
Probing Question: What happened before the Big Bang?

We found some audio tape. Here is a rough transcript:

"Whew! It took 10,000,000,000,000,000 years, but we finally got that big, bad evil parallel universe re-packed into this tiny harmless little particle. Here, help me carry it. And for God's sake, this time DON'T DROP IT!!"

128 posted on 08/04/2006 11:11:22 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: Ichneumon

I believe the posts in question are merely placing an identification sign in a thread to signify that it has been seen and marked. My dog told me to say this.


129 posted on 08/04/2006 11:15:18 AM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the law of the excluded middle)
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To: Ichneumon
"Then we're back to square one and God."

No we're not, that only raises even more questions than it "answers" (and it doesn't even really answer any of the original questions, it just substitutes "*poof*, it's magic" for an actual explanation). It's not an explanation, it's hand-waving.


No. I could quite accept a natural explanation for the universe that begins in an infinite past with infinite energy to explain continued existence. Without both infinities all energy dissipated an infinite time ago or it came ex nihilo. Since the universe as we see it does not have both qualities, I conclude it must have come from a source that does. Absent a more concrete name, I choose to call it God. No magic. I infer its existence outside the universe from pure facts as we know them. And I demonstrated that this theory does not advance one millimeter in explaining it.
130 posted on 08/04/2006 11:15:30 AM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (Give Them Liberty Or Give Them Death! - IT'S ISLAM, STUPID! - Islam Delenda Est! - Rumble thee forth)
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To: RightWhale

I typically post during lulls or breaks at work while experiments are running or instruments are stabilizing. Right now I have a beam splitter that is giving me a headache in an inhereted interferrometer.


131 posted on 08/04/2006 11:17:50 AM PDT by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: PatrickHenry

I believe she was always there awaiting the big bang

132 posted on 08/04/2006 11:17:56 AM PDT by woofie
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To: Ichneumon
...would you consider "people place orders for them at their car dealership and eventually there's a car" to be an adequate response?

If there was a Supreme Being involved...damn right I would.

Aside from that, my remark was laced with a generous dose of sarcasm and not meant as serious reply to the initial question.

Which is why most folks here ignore my posts...because no matter how well equipped I may be to answer all the big questions of the universe, I am, above all...a smartass.

The answer is 42

133 posted on 08/04/2006 11:19:34 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (I can't complain...but sometimes I still do.)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

I don't ignore your posts. I just don't read them.


134 posted on 08/04/2006 11:20:45 AM PDT by js1138 (Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!")
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To: Tiny
Actually he said "Hey Gabriel! Watch this...ooops"

LOL!

Actually, I heard that Gabriel was overheard saying, "I said a Bud Light!"

135 posted on 08/04/2006 11:21:05 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (I can't complain...but sometimes I still do.)
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To: Ichneumon; PatrickHenry
Should have noticed and addressed both of you...

"Then we're back to square one and God."

No we're not, that only raises even more questions than it "answers" (and it doesn't even really answer any of the original questions, it just substitutes "*poof*, it's magic" for an actual explanation). It's not an explanation, it's hand-waving.


No. I could quite accept a natural explanation for the universe that begins in an infinite past with infinite energy to explain continued existence. Without both infinities all energy dissipated an infinite time ago or it came ex nihilo. Since the universe as we see it does not have both qualities, I conclude it must have come from a source that does. Absent a more concrete name, I choose to call it God. No magic. I infer its existence outside the universe from pure facts as we know them. And I demonstrated that this theory does not advance one millimeter in explaining it.
136 posted on 08/04/2006 11:21:18 AM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (Give Them Liberty Or Give Them Death! - IT'S ISLAM, STUPID! - Islam Delenda Est! - Rumble thee forth)
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To: em2vn
I don't agree. If the Big Bang was something from the inside of the singularity outward then it existed within the singularity. If it was simply the outside of the singularity opening up and allowing the contents to rush into nothingness then the outside of the singularity existed though it was maintaining time within itself. The inner surface of the outside of the singularity existed where time was contained. Therefore, it existed no matter if time was within the singularity or outside of it.

Unless, at the instant of the big bang, it wasn't a singularity, but an infinitely dense universe. The initial inflation supplied the space for density to drop. There may never have been a boundary that would mark the edge of the universe. Or, if space itself came into existence at the initiation of the big bang, again, there could be no limit because there was non space in which to have a limit.

137 posted on 08/04/2006 11:21:38 AM PDT by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: js1138
I don't ignore your posts. I just don't read them.

Thanks for that. I feel sooo much better now.

138 posted on 08/04/2006 11:21:59 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (I can't complain...but sometimes I still do.)
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To: UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide
Since the universe as we see it does not have both qualities, I conclude it must have come from a source that does.

Actually, the sum of matter and energy in the universe is zero.

It's just a big kited check.

139 posted on 08/04/2006 11:24:31 AM PDT by js1138 (Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!")
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To: PatrickHenry

The "Big Bang" was the result of the previous universe collapsing in on itself. i.e., it's cyclic.


140 posted on 08/04/2006 11:25:01 AM PDT by Zman516 ("Allah" is Satan, actually.)
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