Posted on 08/03/2006 4:46:43 AM PDT by pinochet
We can all agree that Mel Gibson diplayed extreme stupidity, in making anti-semitic comments infront of a stranger. But the intense campaign in the mass media and on this forum to denounce Gibson, is, frankly, ridiculous. Even many on this forum who defended Trent Lott, have been hysterical in their denunciation of Gibson.
Thinking or saying racist or anti-semitic things is a sin. So is engaging in, or thinking about, extra-marital sex. But given man's fallen nature, such things are common.
People normally express their prejudices to close friends or to family members, not to total strangers. Remember Rev. Billy Graham's infamous private conversation with his close friend, Richard Nixon? Gibson is a stupid man, not an evil man.
I believe that, when labelling a person a "racist" or an "anti-semite", we should look at his long-term record in dealing with blacks or Jews. One or two outrageous comments, in my view, should not make the labels stick. Using such a standard, David Duke and Pat Buchanan qualify as anti-semites. Mel Gibson does not.
The ever sensible Rabbi Daniel Lapin cautioned us all to exercise caution, before labelling individuals. In all his life, Gibson has been very respectful in his dealings with Jews.
We might study why Gibson's case dominates a portion of the news bandwidth. It's not OJ, but the interest seems to be even more personal and gutworthy. If really harsh opinions are being solicited, go onto the streets of Gaza or Baghdad. Why this one?
Millions of illegals aren't a crisis
PTR ^ | July 30, 2006 | Bill Steigerwald
Posted on 07/30/2006 11:35:50 PM EDT by FairOpinion
Is illegal immigration the national crisis it's been whipped up to be?
While acknowledging the obvious socioeconomic problems illegal immigrants cause, Snow argues in a column that immigration -- legal and illegal -- "is not the pox neo-Know Nothings make it out to be."
But with the economy growing, unemployment almost nonexistent and crime at 20-year lows, just don't call our immigration problem a national crisis.
Percentage of illegal immigrants who got here by jumping the Mexican or Canadian border: 60. Percent who overstayed their tourist or educational visas: 40.
Percent of illegals who are unemployed: 5.5. Percent who pay income taxes, Social Security and Medicare: 66. Percent who send their children to public schools: 10. Percent who receive food stamps or unemployment assistance: 5.
(Excerpt) Read more at pittsburghlive.com ...
These people are idiots. The only way for illegals to be 'good for us' is if they are not allowed to get welfare or other kind of government benefits.
"While acknowledging the obvious socioeconomic problems illegal immigrants cause"
Mighty kind of him I am sure.
Percentage of illegals from Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Iran, Saudi Arabia, England, France, China, Russia, Pakistan, etc. who plan to join sleeper cells?: ???
Percentage of illegals who have received free non-emergency medical services???:
Percentages in total number of hospitals closed in border states since 1986: ???
How does one pay social security taxes when one does not have a social security number? If a migrant worker pays into the system under a forged social security number, do those wages acrue to the migrant worker? Or does the gov't just keep the money and tell the poor migrant worker that "amnesty is coming"?
Politicians should be honest and tell folks that high levels of immigration are needed to offset America's low birth rate. Instead, we get this wink and nod that there is no crisis - give me a break. When I see Reconquista images at the protest, and signs in Spanish that say white folks are the illegals, and the southwest is rightfully owned by Mexico - I get a little suspicious of the "everything is OK crowd."
"Conservatives" such as Tony Snow are not just wrong, but they are every bit as dangerous to the well being of this country, if not more so, than Liberals.
The radical political changes that will be brought on by immigration alone, as I have seen in California first hand, make me question the intelligence of so called "conservatives" that support this nonsense.
The everything is OK crowd are headed by liars who want to line their pockets are use what Marx called "useful idiots" to promote their message, such as Tony Snow.
Yes, just more ILLEGAL CRIMINAL apologists. Nice try...but none of this is GOOD for the United States and its REAL citizens who are paying all the bills.
Percent who send their children to public schools: 10
And how many children do each illegal have?
Percent who receive food stamps or unemployment assistance: 5.
If they are illegal, this number should be ZERO!!!
Percent of illegals of those who attacked the United States on Sept. 11, 2001: 100!
The 'Test', if the proponents of illegal aliens live behind in a gated fence community - then they are not allowed to voice an opinion.
I think illegal immigration should be stopped and they shouldn't get any benefits.
I think the point of the author isn't that illegal immigration is OK, but that while we need to stop it, it isn't a CRISIS, as some are trying to whip it into.
Illegal immigration is a CHRONIC PROBLEM, which grew into what it is today over the past 30 YEARS, which needs to be solved once and for all, but there is a difference between a problem and a crisis.
As a problem it needs to be addressed thoughtfully, rationally, not based on emotional, knee-jerk reaction.
Illegal immigration is going to turn this country into another Lebanon or Yugoslavia. Bush ought to be impeached for allowing this insanity to go on. We cannot have 20 million poor people in this country who speak little or no English, are not loyal to America, and have this backward attitude that the democratic process should be a struggle between ethnic groups over who gets what. On top of that, these people have a dysfunctional culture that tolerates 14-year-old girls getting pregnant and values humongous families at the expense of their economic well-being. This is a disaster waiting to happen.
"neo-Know Nothings," is a new one, I've never been called that before.
I learned a long time ago, when they start with the name calling, you are doing something "right."
Add to that the billions of $$$ they send home to Mexico.
I bet they didn't count anchor babies' welfare in that "ten percent on welfare" number.
The glaring inconsistancy here is that the pols are so concerned if I am wearing my seat belt or smoking etc. while insisting that illegals and immigration law are no problem and of no consequence. Enforce illegals crime/law dumbasses, or shut the hell up.
Oops. Make that "five percent on welfare".
Indirectly, he has a point. The US is capable of integrating and transforming immigrants of all kinds into good citizens at a given rate. Problems only begin when we get more immigrants faster than we can integrate.
Historically, waves of immigrants took three generations to integrate. The first generation were "any job" workers who made little fuss. The second generation were neither old country or new country--and here is where organized crime came about. The third generation was fully culturally integrated, and generally left ethnic concentrations for better opportunities.
Mexicans are different than the typical immigrant, because instead of all arriving at once, all three generations co-exist at once. New arrivals side-by-side with successful natively born.
The destination of immigrants also matters as to how rapidly they integrate. Those that land in the giant Mexican communities in California integrate far more slowly than those who must integrate quickly in Phoenix, for example.
In the latter case, it is common to see Parents who don't even speak English holding two jobs or starting a small business, with older children who are troublesome and have a "fish out of water" problem; but also younger children who are fully American, speak English fluently, and have no memories of Mexico, or cultural attachment to it at all.
However, in the last five or so years, the rate at which Mexican immigrants have been pushed into the US has clearly exceeded our ability to comfortably integrate them. I say "pushed", because the rate increase is almost exclusively the result of the Plan Puebla Panama, which is displacing huge numbers of southern Mexicans, and pushing them north towards the border.
At the same time, Mexico seems to be degenerating towards chaos and anarchy, possibly another civil war, using emigration to relieve demographic pressure. If the US is to close our border with them, our preferred option, then we may be faced with twice as many illegals, and not for economic improvement, but because they are refugees from bitter violence.
All told, things aren't really *that* bad in the US, and if we can just reduce the rate of illegal entry, many of the problems would solve themselves. Continuing to neglect the problems, however, solves nothing.
I wonder - do they think the loss of their seats in Congress will rise to the level of a crises? Because that's what's coming.
D.C. Upper Class Beltway Syndrome. Snow has it......Barnes has it....and there is no cure!!
Yep. Bloodbath Cit--Tay!
Wonder what this bunch would say about millions of citizens who refuse to pay their taxes....
The Steigerwalds of the world will change their tune when the illegals become 51% of the population (close already in California) and the already languishing English language newspapers get pushed aside by Spanish ones.
As sharp as Tony Snow is on many issues, he has always been out in left field on the issue of illegal immigration. His supercilious commentaries on those who actually think immigration laws should be enforced (neo-Know Nothings, nativists) are not worthy of debate.
In his new job as WH Press Secretary, he even had the temerity to state (paraphrasing) that the enforcement issue is already taken care of with the posting of National Guard at the border (to wash cars and clear brush) and it was time for people to move on to comprehensive reform (synonym: amnesty).
Illegal immigration is a CHRONIC PROBLEM, which grew into what it is today over the past 30 YEARS, which needs to be solved once and for all, but there is a difference between a problem and a crisis.
As a problem it needs to be addressed thoughtfully, rationally, not based on emotional, knee-jerk reaction.
---
How about just enforcing the laws on the books for starters? legislation passed 20 years ago including an amnesty and 10 years ago which provided for reforms that precluded illegals from receiving benefits and going after employers of same are already on the books.
That is correct, courts have spoken and said what the people approved isn't really what they wanted or meant to have as the law of the land. a pretty sickening predicament when a few in robes can hold such sway and have so much say and abuse it..
you don't have very high expectations for your kids do your?
Yup, sadly a nation doesn't get messed up overnight, it will take awhile to undo the harm done if it can ever be done at all.
Don't know about you, but my first job didn't have a desk. Were I to do it all over again, I'd absolutely start out the way I did - hard work for hard money - but then again, today, I don't think I've seen a kid mowing anything other than their own lawn (rare that it be) much less learning how to start their own business.
Construction used to be a good career path - now most entry level stuff is taken up by 'contract laborers', aka illegals. It doesn't stop there, though - a lot of illegals have moved into carpentry, drywall, plumbing...
I can't count the number of successful, self made millionaires in our country who started out washing dishes to make it through college.
So, yeah, I got great expectations for my kids. I expect them to enter the job force at the bottom, work their way through college, and on the other end, not only have the education of the mind, but of the spirit - nothing comes for free, and those who work, get ahead.
If you think this is bad, and it is, wait until they get the right to vote and vote for the Reconquista Party
A local women here in north Texas found out that there were 81 illegals using her SS# when the government said she owed millions in taxes even though she hasn't worked for years.
Well that sounds great if it works. I just don't think 11 million minimum wage or sub minimum wage jobs are going to benefit anyone, including kids for very long. My son worked construction this summer and made $16/hour. Wasn't hard to find work and he got paid well.
What kinds of radical political changes have immigrants brought to California? California seems to me to be about the same politically as it was 40 years ago when I lived there.
Yeah, thats crazy.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/17/national/main1726397.shtml?source=RSS&attr=HOME_1726397
This guy is high...
This guy's in touch with some "KONA GOLD" for sure...just take another toke numbnuts!
You mean not like Jorge Arbusto has tried to solve it, by ramming an ill-considered "comprehensive" amnesty plan through the Congress.
THAT is the crisis.
Or break any other laws aside from the immigration laws they've already broken.
Make the employers responsible for their health care. Right now, I have to pay for it as do all tax payers. It is driving up the price of health care also.
that is definately where this nonsense is coming from.behind the gated community crowd.you are right
"While acknowledging the obvious socioeconomic problems illegal immigrants cause"
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...and totally ignoring the rape of the American taxpayer, the legal double-standard, the destruction of our soverignty, trashing of the Constitution, making a mockery of USA citizenship, and the coddling of anarchists in our streets -- ALL FOR VOTES!!!
Agreed.
I like how they throw in "Canadian" like they are any part of this problem. And if you want cheap labor to undercut the wages you'd have to pay US citizens minus healthy insureance since those suckers who have health insurance will pay for the illeagals, I wouldn't call the flooding of illegal aliens a crisis either.
It's disgusting to see a White House Press Secretary be so cavalier, blase and craven about the breaking of American laws , and the rape of American taxpayers by foreigners.
------
I was totally disappointed when I heard Tony had taken this job because we knew he would have to pander to the elitist, NWO line. And he apparently is. Is the job really worth throwing away all your self respect and your patriotism??
ok....so it's ok for illegals to be here, they're actually helping and not harming our nation. Wait...what are they called? They're called "illegals." Any 5th-grader could tell you "illegal"="against the law." So what are they doing here? Why do we allow such blatant violation of our laws?
ping
All this against the will of the majority of the American people!
The presidency is becoming a monarchy. I never thought I'd live to see this.
I'm suspicious of the numbers, not sure how accurate numbers can be derived from an illegal population. I do know social and medical services as well as schools are overwhelmed in areas with large populations of illegals. I suppose it is possible to use nationwide averages to make it seem there is no problems- but the numbers just seem unreal to me.
The presidency is becoming a monarchy. I never thought I'd live to see this.
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It is very disturbing and of course, contrary to what America is and was intended to be by its founders. It is sad but Washington has failed us and our Constitutional Republic. They are in it now for themselves, not the will of the people, and are focused only on the aquisition of power, lofty utopian NWO agendas, and of course, VOTES.
You are important to them ONLY if you provide either campaign contributions OR votes. Otherwise they have no use for you, other than your tax dollars....a tragic reality for America.
Illegal Immigration: Seems like Isreal had a "Guest Worker" program for Palestinians once. Can you say, "Atzlan?
There's very few of them who would get my vote or my contribution. The "two" parties have become one, and I truly believe that a strong third party is what will turn America around.
Nixon said "I'm not a crook" - how many of those in Washington can even dare to say that? No one believes them anymore. The majority of them have already sold America out.
"Percent who pay income taxes, Social Security and Medicare: 66 >>>>>>
66% of illegals paying taxes ??? I like to see WHERE that stat comes from.
btw *if* many are paying with phony numbers, they only create BIG problems for the LEGAL taxpayer.
here the IRS admits to issuing only 6 million ITIN'S (many for legal purposes)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/982825/posts
"More than 6 million ITIN cards have been issued since 1996, but only 2 million tax forms have been filed using the ITINs. The status of the other 4 million ITINs is not known, but immigration-reform advocates say illegal immigrants are using the numbers to skirt U.S. immigration, tax and fraud laws."
Snow Job!
This seems like an appropriate place to mention that I for one drove the speed limit to work today and used my turn signal at all required times.
There is nothing wrong with a kid working these jobs. I have one child working construction now. It is great for him and he is making $16/hour which is very good for a high school boy. He had no trouble finding a summer job.
My comment sounded snobby, and I didn't mean for it to. There is nothing wrong with working one of these jobs, I just meant that it wouldn't provide much benefit overall, because most kids would only use them for a couple years. I apologize if my comment offended anyone. I would never criticize someone for doing an honest day's work.
Give this writer the "idiot of the month" award.
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I will get you more from other threads if you like.
Please dude are you that naive?
Over crowding of public school systems!
Hospitals forced to close because they have to treat illegals for free!
Illegals collecting Social Security and Welfare benefits
Overcrowded prison system with illegals
MS-13 gangs
Chew on that for starters!
You have shown me nothing yet. But if you want to keep trying, I will be patiently waiting to see.
Percent of illegals of those who attacked the United States on Sept. 11, 2001: 100!
I told you I couldn't help the blind to see.
Bommer, are you willing to step up and be someone who is blaming illegals for all of America's ills?
Glad you finally showed up and gave Raycpa at least on poster who can be named for blaming illegals for everything.
"Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world." - Matthew 28:19-20
The Catholic would not use the term, but for the sake of discussing it with someone who does, I as a Catholic would understand it to mean observing all He has commanded. What do you mean by "accepting Jesus"?
This article is a genuine crock. Illegals are keeping wages for Americans down.Don't tell us that illegals are only doing work that Americans won't do.Go to any construction site and you'll seeing them doing carpentry, plumbing, painting, electrial, etc. Opening up the social security system to illegals will bankrupt the system, not too mention how our taxes will hit the ceiling (as they are now) so we can provide healthcare and education for the illegals. Hospitals can't refuse service to the illegals and neither can our schools. SEND THE ILLEGALS BACK,all 20 million of them< and let them come here the legal way. Because of our crackpot politicians our nation will go the way of third worldism.
Guess not.
Oops, now you are back on personal attacks because you cannot name the many Freepers who blame illegals for all of Americas ills.
Nachum is addressing problems in California.
I don't see this person blaming illegals for all of America's ills.
But nice try. You found one, kinda sorta.
But you really should get your liberal friends to post bogus responses.
If someone presents writings that can be clearly read by a third grader and if that person claims they cannot see them, is it a personal attack to assume they are blind?
I ended a friendship with some guys I knew from high school (and had remained friends after graduation) because although they had gone to a Catholic high school, their Lebanese mother had brought them up to be rabid antisemites. And I think it was their antisemitic beliefs that led them to the politics of Lyndon LaRouche.
Hollywood and the press is exhibiting a double standard here though.
Al Sharpton was never called upon to explain himself in the 2004 election even though he'd been on record using phrases like "Jew them down".
Jesse Jackson recovered from his public "hymietown" statement.
Louis Fahrakahn regularly preaches hate toward Jews and other "white devils" in his MMM rallies.
Gary Busey portrayed an evil Jewish doctor stealing organs from Iraqi prisoners at "Abu Ghraib" for weathly Israeli and American clients in an evil Turkish film that the media embraced because it was anti Iraq war.
The media is silent over the TERRORIST SHOOTING in Seattle, preferring to label it a "hate crime" where a Pakistanini muslim, with forethought and deliberate intent, kidnapped a teen as a hostage, entered a Jewish community center, and shot 6 unarmed women, killing one immediately.
Hezbollah is treated as a legitimate group and now the media is downplaying their boldly antisemitic decrees.
Mel may be a bigot but the rest of the effin' world is filled with hypocritical liberals who give a pass to those who can do Jews much more harm.
From above(I know you can't read)
Illegal immigration is going to turn this country into another Lebanon or Yugoslavia.
I would take it to mean to do your best to observe all the teachings. Everyone falls along the way. Some more than others. But the way I interpreted it, is your intent and struggle mean more than a tally sheet to be graded on.
For example, a sexual addict could accept Jesus and try to live by His teachings. Does that mean that he can't be tempted, or even fall and succumb to his urges during times of weakness? Obviously he will try to minimize getting into bad situations, do his best to resist, etc. but I don't think there's a magic percentage or formula that will score you points.
Of course, if he SAYS that he accepts Jesus, but doesn't even attempt to alter his behavior and instead acts on his urges, then he hasn't really, and fully, accepted Jesus.
Why aren't we having a discussion on the fact that he was driving drunk and could very easily have killed someone?
>>Nope. The only bigoted thoughts that I have are against liberals.<<
Then I truly admire you.
You are the only poster here, out of 120 replies, who says that he has never had a racist or anti-semitic thought in his life.
But I think I made my point on this thread. I revealed that the thoughts of Mel Gibson are far more common than many of us would care to admit. Its only that most people keep such thoughts to themselves, or discuss them only with close friends or family members.
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