Posted on 07/22/2006 10:43:33 PM PDT by numapompilius
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/
"Me, I'm happy that "this political climate" keeps the government from expelling law-abiding citizens from the country. You should also be happy, because it means we are a nation of laws."
You're assuming that they are, in fact, law abiding.
"In exchange for the charges being dropped, he agreed to renounce his (legally dubious) citizenship."
Legally dubious? As I recall, he was born in Louisiana. Citizenship has been revoked, or at least proceedings started, for naturalized citizens for merely supporting terrorist "charities".
"You should also be happy, because it means we are a nation of laws."
We are a nation at war. You know, Kerry would've treated this as a law enforcement, react after the crime, thing too.
What you have made very clear is that you believe Muslim-hatred should override citizenship. Or did I get that wrong?
"What you have made very clear is that you believe Muslim-hatred should override citizenship. Or did I get that wrong?"
It's not "Muslim-hatred", but a recognition that Islam is a threat to this civilization. They must renounce Islam or leave. As it stands, any moderation movement within Islam is stymied by the way they view the Koran - the direct, dictated, word of Allah, so even a Koran-only Islam is suspect. Getting them to give up the Hadiths like Bukhari will be difficult.
I think the loyalty *practicing* Muslims have to the Ummah supersedes the loyalty they could have to a non-Muslim state - or even Muslim state, for that matter (which is why some Muslim governments want us to be their ally - they're afraid of the mob). Witness the various independent jihadist attacks from Seattle to Chapel Hill.
Allowing Muslim charites to continue to function is just funding jihad. Allowing CAIR to continue to function is exactly the same as allowing the Bund to continue operating after 1941. Allowing massive numbers of student visas to the ME and fast-tracking them is nearly suicidal. Norm Mineta's penchant for roughing up MoH winners and little old ladies to avoid "profiling" Muslims as potential terrorists is liberal idiocy in the extreme.
This is a war. We didn't start it. Mohammad did. This is just another hot phase in that war. Our enemy is aware of the weaknesses of our court system. They will and, in fact, are using lawyers against us. Just as in Europe, only their problem is further advanced. Wafa Sultan, an actual former Muslim, understands all this. You, a supposed non-Muslim, do not.
That's what the law assumes. The burden of proof is on the accuser.
Legally dubious? As I recall, he was born in Louisiana
The question of his citizenship revolved around whether fighting with Taliban forces constituted fighting for a "foreign army" -- a de facto renunciation of U.S. citizenship. Because the Taliban was not recognized by the government of the United States, their army could also be considered a militia, such as the Abraham Lincoln Brigade or the mercenary armies of southern Africa in the 1970s.
We are a nation at war.
All the more reason to respect the laws. Laws provide discipline and when the rule of law is ignored, chaos ensues. And a chaotic country is harder to defend than a united one.
"That's what the law assumes. The burden of proof is on the accuser."
Ah, but that's not usually a consideration during a war. Cicero, again.
"All the more reason to respect the laws."
We "ignored" these laws you think we have during WWII and managed to survive.... We, at the very least, stopped immigration/travel from combatant countries and held their citizens until the end of hostilities.
You're back in that corner again. "Islam is a threat to Western civilization, ergo we must renounce the Enlightenment and ignore the rights of the individual."
any moderation movement within Islam is stymied by the way they view the Koran - the direct, dictated, word of Allah, so even a Koran-only Islam is suspect.
Having seen how you view the Qur'an when translated into what I assume is your native language, I would say that your authority on "Koran-only Islam" is suspect.
I think the loyalty *practicing* Muslims have to the Ummah supersedes the loyalty they could have to a non-Muslim state
You're not alone in being wrong on this one, but how do you differentiate the "bad" Muslims (the "*practicing* Muslims" in your terms) from the "good" Muslims?
Witness the various independent jihadist attacks from Seattle to Chapel Hill.
Naveed Haq? He renounced Islam, got baptized, and attended Bible study groups.
Allowing CAIR to continue to function is exactly the same as allowing the Bund to continue operating after 1941.
If you believe CAIR is working to overthrow our government, then investigate it and bring the organization to justice. However, CAIR's actions do not reflect on all Muslims in America, just as the Bund's actions did not reflect on all ethnic Germans in America.
Norm Mineta's penchant for roughing up MoH winners and little old ladies to avoid "profiling" Muslims as potential terrorists is liberal idiocy in the extreme.
And you's penchant for expelling philanthropists, MoH winners, and little old ladies because they are Muslim is idiocy in the extreme because it strives to prove what bin Ladin says: that America hates Muslims.
This is a war. We didn't start it. Mohammad did.
Ahistorical.
Our enemy is aware of the weaknesses of our court system.
Our enemy is also aware that there are vocal bigots calling on us to "Nuke Mecca". They will, and in fact are, use this against us. You, a supposed friend of America, are giving them the ammo they want.
It's within the president's legal power to suspend habeas corpus in a time of war. It is not within the government's legal power to push innocent citizens outside the stockades in a time of war.
We "ignored" these laws you think we have during WWII and managed to survive...
Indeed, but even then we did not expel our citizens who were merely accused of conspiring with Germany or Japan. And would be a counterfactual suggestion that this was the best and fastest way to win the war.
We were allies of Unca Joe Stalin at that time. We are NOT now, and haven't been since! Neither has the press, the courts, the institutions of learning, or the Dimored party!
It's becoming more and more apparent to more and more Americans each and every day! The soviets are pissed about US bankrupting them! They are using Tehran as an independent shadow puppet, to swipe back at Freedom!
It would be more expedient to just start a new religion that declares open season on the slaves of satan!
If the slaves of satan can have a religion that demands they murder us, why not start one that demands we return the favor?
How are they "using" this against us??
WHich part of the MULTI PROCLAIMED phrase "Death to America" is causing you dificulty in comprehension?
3000 dead CIVILIANS on 911, you and superJoKe consider the threat overrated?
If the Japanese or Germans pulled this kinda sneak attack on INNOCENT CIVILIANS, we would've, well you can read a history book!
If OBL had a nuke, would he use it? Who would he use it on? Why?
Iran has stated in front of the UN that they will NUKE ISRAEL!!!! This is not the blog wars of a news site, this is the head of a state seeking NUKES to USE THEM!
A vaporized mecca is the last option, and the only solution to the scourge of Freedom!
Is-slime IS SLAVERY!!!
FREE THE SLAVES!!!!
Not set opinions about longtime Freepers. You have to have been here some while to acquire those.
You need to learn some manners, newbie, or you won't be long for here.
You do not accuse longtime posters of trolling.
A "retread" is someone who's been here before and been banned.
Your personal attacks of long-time Freepers as if you knew them forever kinda give you away.
You want to be just like them, be my guest.
(Actually, don't be my guest, do it far away from me.)
"You need to learn some manners, newbie, or you won't be long for here.
You do not accuse longtime posters of trolling."
Perhaps you should avoid attacking people in a trollish manner, then. You don't address issues in this thread. You just attack the poster.
"A "retread" is someone who's been here before and been banned"
Ah, I see. This happens a lot?
"Your personal attacks of long-time Freepers as if you knew them forever kinda give you away."
I don't know those posters, but I have encountered similar opinions before.
"Not set opinions about longtime Freepers. You have to have been here some while to acquire those."
No, I just have to recognize where he's coming from. A quick glance at a posting history can confirm that. I presumed that this was why that feature was available on this forum's software....
I survived as a conservative on alt.politics.republicans for a decade or so, so I've seen the other side's arguments often enough to recognize them immediately.
Perhaps if you would stick to the topic at hand instead of baiting?
Naturalization has been revoked in cases of heinous crimes or if the naturalization process was conducted using fraudulent information. You, however, want to expel every citizen who professes the Islamic faith. There's a big difference.
Interestingly enough, intelligence intercepts backed up the decision to intern Japanese families from the coasts.
Intelligence intercepts revealed that Japanese consulates in America had been trying to recruit a ring of spies with dual Japanese and American citizenship. That does not justify moving 120,000 citizens to internment camps.
Too wide a net? Probably.
Definitely.
It was war.
And it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to suspect that Japan's renowned willingness to fight to the death was influenced by the fear that, if law-abiding Americans of Japanese descent were shipped off to desert prisons, Japan's citizens would fare even worse under an American occupation.
What's also interesting is that in WWII, Americans of German and Japanese descent went out of their way to prove their loyalty.
Yeah. How'd that work out for them again? And patriotic American Muslims do the same thing, and are treated with similar contempt by people like you.
The majority of Muslims in the United States whine about their rights and peddle conspiracy theories.... It's all about them. Every terrorist attack by a Muslim and the first thing you hear is complaining from the Muslim "community". Pitiful.
Your window into the Muslims "community" is skewed by the fact that you only recognize Muslims in the news when something bad happens. Positive stories about Muslims in the papers, on TV and on the internet are dismissed because of the journalists' suspected "dhimmitude".
You act as if we can't defend ourselves....
And you act as if we have to defend the Constitution by destroying it, defend Western values by renoucing them, and keep Americans safe by kicking them out of the country.
You know, just claiming someone is wrong doesn't make it so.
In that I know several extremely pious Muslims who are among the most honest and patriotic people you would ever meet (if you didn't hate them so much) -- my claim is justified.
You really can't, until after they've killed. That's why Islam must be banned.
Well, in that the neighbors of serial killers are usually shocked -- shocked! -- that such nice, polite, friendly young men can kill dozens of people in cold blood, you should probably get to work on banning quiet white guys who live in the suburbs. Or, just ban babies. You can't tell if they'll become murderers either.
Ah, so THAT's why he called himself a "Muslim" when he shot those innocent women...
Doesn't change the fact that he renouced Islam, got baptized, and attended Bible study groups.
Ah, but they did reflect on all NAZIs in America at the time. CAIR is still here, very likely, due to the same PC you believe in.
1) "Nazi" is not an acronym and should not be capitalized as you do. 2) Again, if you believe CAIR is a threat to this country, investigate it, prosecute it and have it disbanded. As you said earlier in your post: "just claiming someone is wrong doesn't make it so." In any case, CAIR is an organization. It is not all Muslims in the United States.
Islam hates America.
You've made your opinion known on this matter.
Therefore, we should invite them to leave it.
You have extended your invitation. Leave it at that.
Notice how many of those "charities" get investigated and shut down by the FBI?
Yes. That means the FBI is doing it's job.
Nah, couldn't be because all those poor, innocent, "Americans" aren't extremists, could it?
There is a long history of Irish-American "charities" whose used donations from Boston and New York to provide weapons and support for the terrorist IRA. Should we also expel Americans of Irish descent? Or just Americans supporting the Irish nationalist cause?
The only way non-state actors like would understand and accept MAD is if we provide a credible target that will be erased if we lose a city to you people.
And how do you know that Nuking Mecca will act as a deterrent?
Muslim terrorists kill non-Muslims and we hear nary a peep.
Only if we choose to ignore what we hear.
I'm about tired of hearing about Muslims and what they want or complain about.
Then don't pay attention. Otherwise, stop your complaining.
I'm tired of paying BILLIONS for security because many Muslims take their religion seriously.
Expelling all Muslims from the US would give al-Qa'ida the opportunity to recruit new terrorists who had before doubted their claim that America hates Islam. Needless to say, our anti-terrorism spending would increase significantly.
Most American citizens have never taken an oath of citizenship. I would imagine that more Muslim citizens are naturalized citizens, but certainly not all of them. Did you take an oath of citizenship? Because your hostility towards our Constitution and our way of life suggests that your citizenship oath was taken under false pretexts.
Ah, but intel also indicated other things that you ignore. What's more, we have an example from the Hawaiian islands of a American citizens of Japanese extraction aiding a Japanese pilot right after Pearl Harbor.
Unless that intelligence indicated that Americans of Japanese ancestry were planning en masse to undermine the country on the West Coast, internment was not justified.
Ironically, Hawai'i had by far the largest percentage of ethnic Japanese and as a territory, the weakest legal options for opposing internment. Yet there was not internment of innocent civilians in Hawai'i.
ROTFLMAO! This is insane!
Insane that Japanese would believe it? Or insane that I suggested that it was possible that Japanese believed it? A Japanese-American who feared that his government might ship him to a internment camp for the sole crime of having Japanese ancestors would be called "insane" in 1938 and would be called "internee" in 1942.
Ah, but that's not the reaction we see from almost all "American Muslims". We see protests and complaints.
If you only pay attention to the "Jihad Media" (Al-Jazeera, MEMRI, DhimmiWatch) then, yes, protests and complaints are probably all you see.
You fail to understand that this wouldn't be a betrayal of the Constitution.
Of course it is. It's clearly prohibiting the free exercise of religion. First Amendment.
Islam is a political animal.
So is Christianity, according to Pat Robertson, Ralph Reed, and the like. Would you bar them from participating in politics or would you kick Christians out of the country?
There were good Nazis, too....
You say this a lot. And in any case, the "good Nazis" used their place in the political structure to destroy Nazism.
Actually, I don't hate Muslims. I hate Islam.
You keep saying this, and then you follow up with...
Ah, but as Muslims are told to lie to the infidel by their prophet, just why are we to believe him?
So who's being dishonest here? Alternately, why do you believe the Muslims you don't hate?
NAtionalsocialiZt.
1) Not a acronym.
2) Only covers letters N, A, and Z.
3) You spelled "Nationalsozialistische" wrong.
All the other Muslim organizations seem to be on the same page as CAIR.
Then take the evidence you have to the authorities, before it's too late. You do have evidence for at least some of "all the other Muslim organizations" don't you?
It also means there is a large number of "American Muslims" who are on the side of the terrorists.
Again, that would also mean that a large number of Irish Americans and supporters of Irish nationalism are on the side of the terrorists. Will you deport the Irish as well?
Nuking Mecca wouldn't be. Threatening to nuke Mecca if we lose a city would be. That should be obvious to anyone.
You're assuming that Islamic terrorists operate rationally. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is widening streets in Tehran in anticipation of the return of the 12th Imam. How sure are you that someone like him will be the sane and stable adversary that MAD requires?
I don't believe you realize what your statement says about these "peace-loving" people you defend.
I don't see what my statement says about "peace-loving" people, other than the fact that you want a large number of them kicked out of the country. My statement does say that this assult on the innocent Muslims who love America will be used by al-Qa'ida to recruit a lot of not-so-innocent Muslims who hate America. And, in case you haven't noticed, there are lots of them in this world. Why help terrorists recruit new members and ruin good Americans' lives?
Islam hates America and the rest of the West. We clearly see that. They've been saying it for ages.
You hate American and the rest of the West. You want to expel innocent American citizens from the country and you want to do it in a way that will push radical Muslims around the world into al-Qa'ida's hands. You want to create a religious war at the expense of my fellow Americans and only seem to encourage others to side with our enemy. You've been saying this since you've signed up here and we all think it's time you stopped.
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