Posted on 07/22/2006 10:43:33 PM PDT by numapompilius
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/
"It makes more sense, but it's still a faulty analogy."
Not all Muslims are evil, but Islam is.
"Indeed. Nothing justfies terrorism."
The prophet did. Indeed, he practiced it himself.
"What has driven Christian terrorists over the ages is the idea that the message of the NT -- that Christ sacrificed himself for the sins of the world and those who believe in Him are saved from (John 14:6)-- is an exclusionary one."
Actually, no. Nothing in the NT justifies murder.
"I don't read the NT as a "make war on the infidel" tract, but others have. "
The plain language of the NT doesn't back you up. There's no equivalent to Sura 9.
"Like Colombia?"
Is that a war on "terror" or the drug cartels?
"2) I'm sure the IRA, ETA, FARC, KKK, etc will be surprised to learn that they are Muslim terrorist groups."
Are we militarily engaged against the KKK now? Actually, David Duke and his ilk ARE on the Muslim side....
"Because I follow the law and expect others to do the same and expect the government to punish those who break the law and protect those who don't?"
You defend the ideology that seeks to dominate the world. That's why.
"1) Don't call me "son". You haven't earned the right."
Just as Islam hasn't earned my respect.
The fact is for a period of time al-Andalus was a major center of learning. That's not to say it was a garden of eden, it wasn't When the university of Paris had a library of 75(?) books the library in Granada had 12,000. If you were studying medicine you didn't go to Londaon you went to al-Andalus.
If you believe that, fine. But why expel all Muslims from the country if they're not all evil?
Actually, no. Nothing in the NT justifies murder.
Nothing justifies murder. That hasn't stopped people from using the NT to try to justify murder. How many people were murdered during the Conquest of the Americas because they allegedly refused the Message of Christ?
The plain language of the NT doesn't back you up.
The plain language of the NT doesn't back me up how? Does "the plain language of the NT" somehow dismiss the fact that non-Christians have been killed by people who believed they were promoting and/or defending the Faith?
There's no equivalent to Sura 9.
In the New Testament? No. But Deuteronomy is very much equivalent. And it's in the Bible.
Is that a war on "terror" or the drug cartels?
FARC is classified as a terrorist organization.
Are we militarily engaged against the KKK now?
The FBI, Secret Service, ATF, and other domestic security agencies are engaged against the KKK and other domestic terrorist groups. The Pentagon generally does not commit troops to domestic conflicts, although the national guard has been used in the past.
Actually, David Duke and his ilk ARE on the Muslim side....
While its unsurprising that David Duke would ally himself with anti-Semetic Muslim groups like al-Qa'ida and Hizbullah, it is hard to believe that a man who has devoted his life to the idea of white Christian supremacy would ever be on the side of Muslims.
You defend the ideology that seeks to dominate the world.
I'm defending Americans, the US Constituion and the American way of life against people who wish to impose a religious test on our citizens and expel those whose theology is different. I am doing this by revealing your views of Islam, Muslims to be historically inaccurate, and your reading of the Qur'an -- the peg on which you seem to hang your bigotry -- to be cursory at best.
Do you want to read those passages again and show me where it says that Christians and Jews are apes? Or pigs?
It's certainly what the "imams" teach
Certainly there are anti-Semitic imams who would like to believe that. Also, there are Christian preachers who will tell you that the Ham's wickedness is carried on today in Africans' dark skin or that dinosaur bones were buried in the earth by Satan to tempt us. Doesn't mean that those things are in the Bible. And it doesn't make it true.
You made your first mistake when you chose to resort to the facts...
The fact is for a period of time al-Andalus was a major center of learning.
"http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/001665.php"
"If you believe that, fine. But why expel all Muslims from the country if they're not all evil? "
They'll have to renounce Islam.
"That hasn't stopped people from using the NT to try to justify murder. How many people were murdered during the Conquest of the Americas because they allegedly refused the Message of Christ?"
How many have justified it by the plain language of the "war verses" in the Koran?
"In the New Testament? No. But Deuteronomy is very much equivalent. And it's in the Bible."
Sorry, no. None of those commands were forward looking.
"FARC is classified as a terrorist organization."
We aren't at war with them.
"The FBI, Secret Service, ATF, and other domestic security agencies are engaged against the KKK and other domestic terrorist groups. The Pentagon generally does not commit troops to domestic conflicts, although the national guard has been used in the past."
Are they "engaged"? Right. None of this is part of the "War on Terror".
"While its unsurprising that David Duke would ally himself with anti-Semetic Muslim groups like al-Qa'ida and Hizbullah, it is hard to believe that a man who has devoted his life to the idea of white Christian supremacy would ever be on the side of Muslims."
Hitler was. Your point? Why is Mein Kampf such a popular book in the ME?
"I'm defending Americans, the US Constituion and the American way of life against people who wish to impose a religious test on our citizens and expel those whose theology is different."
We BANNED the Nazi party in the United States in 1942. I see this as no different.
"I am doing this by revealing your views of Islam, Muslims to be historically inaccurate, and your reading of the Qur'an -- the peg on which you seem to hang your bigotry -- to be cursory at best."
I know Islam by its fruits. It is up to the followers of Islam, at this point, to prove that they are civilized. THEY aren't the victims here, although it is a common tactic they employ to play the victim.
Possibly of interest.
Taqqiya at work.
Nice try, but coming from someone who believes that, for Muslims, "no oath can contradict the Deen or Shariah" (#117), I have a feeling you would expel them anyway.
Sorry, no. None of those commands were forward looking.
When is murder "forward looking"?
How many have justified it by the plain language of the "war verses" in the Koran?
No one has justified it, although many have tried. As in Christian history. What's your point?
We aren't at war with them [FARC].
The State Department, the CIA, and our allies in Colombia would disagree with you.
Are they "engaged"? Right. None of this is part of the "War on Terror".
You said (#157) that "'Terror' is just a tactic." Domestic terrorist use 'terror' to achieve their goals. I don't see how stopping domestic terror groups is not part of a War on Terror.
Hitler was. Your point?
Both Hitler and Duke (his admirer) made alliances with anti-Semitic Muslim organizations, not with Muslims as a whole. Hitler certainly was not on the side of the Muslim soldiers in the French army who were trying to kill him. Nor did they have any affinity for him or his ideas. Although alliances with anti-Semites are the means to an anti-Semitic end, "Aryan" supremacy and Chrisitan Identity hold no place for non-Christians and non-"Aryans". Hitler would not lose any sleep over invading the Balkans and North Africa -- indeed, he did invade those places. And if we follow your dishonest "logic" about Islam, Muslims would never truly be allies of Hitler because, as a kafir, they were commanded to kill him.
But hatred makes for strange bedfellows. Neo-Nazis here in America also want Muslims out of the country. Does that mean that you are in league with them? Not necessarily, but you do share some goals.
Why is Mein Kampf such a popular book in the ME?
Because there are a lot of anti-Semites in the ME. Did you really need to ask that?
We BANNED the Nazi party in the United States in 1942. I see this as no different.
Which is one of the reasons why you are not the Secretary of Homeland Security.
I know Islam by its fruits. It is up to the followers of Islam, at this point, to prove that they are civilized. THEY aren't the victims here, although it is a common tactic they employ to play the victim.
Since you brought up Hitler, you should understand the implications of what you're defending.
As for ideologies judged by their fruits, the one proposed on this thread:
doubts that adherents to a minority religion are "civilized";
rants about how their religion is incompatable with the country's way of life;
ignores anything in their history disproving such sweeping generalizations;
blames them for a host of ills in the country and the world;
speciously links them to historical villans in a vast conspiracy;
suggests that their primary loyalty to to their co-religionists rather than their homeland;
complains that they are now embedded in our institutions and our laws, unless changed are powerless to stop them;
advocates revoking their citizenship;
advocates expelling them from the country;
advocates detaining them in camps;
We've seen the fruits of that kind of ideology. It's now up to you you to prove that you are a civilized human being and not a bigoted eliminationist. You are leveling very serious charges against millions of Americans, millions of Americans you want to expel from the country. Thankfully you have no power to do that. And you never will, so stop playing the victim.
I still would like to know what translation you're using. It's the same one JihadWatch uses, but even JihadWatch isn't stupid enough to read "those who worshipped evil" as "Jews as Christians who didn't convert."
Apparently that's almost all of them. Including children's shows in the Middle East.
No, that's not apparent. What is apparent is that almost all of the imams and childrens shows you see on MEMRI talking about apes and pigs are anti-Semitic. But MEMRI only covers the Middle East, and is generally biased towards covering anti-Semitic rhetoric in ME media. Also, given that your comprehension of the English translation is so faulty, you're probably reading a lot into the MEMRI translations as well.
Can't say I've ever heard of this. I have, however, heard what Imams have to say.... This is more than just a fringe.
And I would imagine that although you find Muslim anti-Semitism deplorable, you probably "[c]an't say [you]'ve ever heard of" any examples of Christian anti-Semitism either, right?
They only way you can honestly claim that that anti-Semitic imams covered on MEMRI "are more than just a fringe" is if you've also heard a numerically and ideologically representative sample of what imams not covered on MEMRI have to say. And, of course, you haven't. But this, too, isn't really part of what you're propposing. These MEMRI imams are not in the United States and generally aren't allowed to come to the United States. When one is, it's against everything we stand for. Just like saying that Muslims are apes and pigs or that they should be expelled from the country en masse.
Then perhaps you believe that argumentative strangers who talk down to me should also be expelled from the country. I certainly do.
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