Rowr! Phhhhhhtttt! Hsssss! 
As usual, you have hit the nail on the head. Mea culpa.
Posted on 07/08/2006 7:59:32 PM PDT by Libloather
Rowr! Phhhhhhtttt! Hsssss!
As usual, you have hit the nail on the head. Mea culpa.
Sorry, but I've seen TOO many volcaoes who explode QUITE selectively.
I, too, have seen this person. The selectivity. I hadn't considered your first example as separate, those who can't control it at all. But I do see your point.
They are just angry people who marry the doormats. Their explosion IS NEVER at the local cop, minister, clerk or their friends. It's always at their spouses and children, the doormat and captive audience respectively.
In a way, male or female, the 'doormat' with self esteem issues or who may have been shaped by a 'volcano' earlier, would be the only kind of person such a volatile individual would marry. And vice versa. I think some are drawn to marry those very kinds of people who may have been abusive to them at some earlier stage. It's the devil they do know, ironic though that is.
True. It's a horrible irony. It's the repeating of a cycle of violence and dysfunction. I guess it goes back to the very cave days.
I don't expect things to change much either. Do you? With all we know and learn and with all the help out there....posters STILL have compassion for the doormat. They expect NOTHING but tears and bolster the weeping with SUCH misplaced compassion.
It's ALL the fault of the volcano and the doormat need take NO responsibility for her life or the consequences of HER behavior. It's unreal.
Lol. When a woman is the abuser and the man is the doormat HE is told to "Be a man! Grow up!" HE is not allowed to be the victim. And if he weeps? He is excoriated for being a woos, weaking, etc. We save our misplaced compassion for the woman doormat. It's allowed for HER, but never, ever for the man.
SHE should be told to grow some backbone, gather some courage and....well, you get the point.
It is UNBELIEVABLY sad for the children who learn their respective roles (volcano or doormat) and will, without fail, repeat the cycle.
I guess what's so annoying is that when the volcano erupts, the doormat weeps to the world. All the hankies come out IN SUPPORT for the doormat.
The misplaced compassion is annoying because it REWARDS the doormat for being manipulative, weak and cowardly.
Having strength and courage has NOTHING to do with gender. REAL men are attracted to REAL women and vice versa....both which have strength and courage to go through life and its troubles, woes, crosses and griefs.
This story provoked a lot of feelings, didn't it?
It shows me how little some posters know about human nature. However, I know I am right on these issues. Listening to Dr. Laura everyday (on my way home from work) I learn something new every week, most of which are common sense things that hadn't occurred to me. :o)
Michaelangelo's motto: I am still learning.
This is probably the one area where we disagree, to a point. There is a lot of help out there for the victim, the 'doormat' personality. But often these people's self esteem has been so damaged they do not recognize they need, can get, the help they need. For some, the very idea they can exist without the abuse or the abuser is something they simply can't fathom or feel they deserve. It's a little different for the volcano personality who is often keenly aware of his Jekyll and Hyde personality (ie a great guy at work, a raving maniac at home). The 'doormat' personality may be actively complicit in the volcanos reactions and use them to deflect rage from his/herself and onto others, sadly often the children in such a home. Other times, this victim will shield the children. Obviously one type is more complicit than the other, and less deserving, if you will, of sympathy.
It is unreal. Now how to get the victim to seek help or step away from the abuser? I think it's a question of how aware she is that she is part of the problem and/or part of the solution. If you've ever met anyone convinced they aren't worthy of anything good, you'll know what I mean. They expect insults, negative comments, etc. They don't know how to process praise, complements, etc, and can be suspicious of them since many abusers will sometimes feel guilty and shower their abused with praise because the abused has at least in the moment corrected the fault that sets the abuser off (it's never their fault). Faulty logic for all, but if it's all one's ever known, then when does reality get a chance to break in?
I guess for many of the 'doormats', some responsibility is needed, but I think that to truly break the cycle, they need to get away from the abuser (how to convince them to do so, I don't know) and realize they don't have to live in such a world of reward/punishment that is radically opposed to the real world.
It is UNBELIEVABLY sad for the children who learn their respective roles (volcano or doormat) and will, without fail, repeat the cycle.
Yet, some can and do break away and break the cycle. And live normal lives. Our answers lie in what gives them, and the victims and abusers who truly change, the strength and courage to live differently. It is terribly sad for the kids. That is where some sympathy, some recognition that the abused and even the abuser deserve some sympathy and a chance to change, so their children can live differently and see their parents truly change for the better.
I guess what's so annoying is that when the volcano erupts, the doormat weeps to the world. All the hankies come out IN SUPPORT for the doormat.
Some weep in silence, hidden from the world, they are deserving of all our sympathy. Remember, the 'doormat' is a victim and does deserve some of our sympathy. It may be a fear response, the weeping to the world, to hold back our hand, a tactic that may have worked with the abuser. They are operating on faulty logic.
This story provoked a lot of feelings, didn't it?
It really does.
Having strength and courage has NOTHING to do with gender. REAL men are attracted to REAL women and vice versa....both which have strength and courage to go through life and its troubles, woes, crosses and griefs.
I didn't mean to imply that. Nor does it assign victimhood, men and women can be either role it seems, abuser or abused. I agree. But not all abused are doormats. For some of these victims, it's all they know and they've been browbeaten into thinking it's all they deserve, much like prisoners of war or kidnap victims can be browbeaten into a complete personality change. I'm not a regular listener of Dr. Laura. I know I do agree with at least some of her points. But for the person who knows no other way, to tell them to no nonsensely take charge of their life is to no avail because they know no other life than abuse. Those are the smaller amount truly needing some sympathy and serious help to get away from the cycle.
Well, I've gone on quite a bit! ;-) Michaelangelo was a smart man! I'm still learning, too.
I agree with some sympathy.
Have you ever heard of Delancy Street? It's a rehab/detox place for drug/alcohol abuse, especially for the former.
They give their people only ONE chance. If they blow it, they are out. They are very successful.
There are (mostly) men there who come in AT THE VERY BOTTOM of the pit of life. Their stories of home abuse would rip your heart out. From their stories you would believe that they were DOOMED forever.
Yet, they dig themselves out of the pit. Delancy Street gives them the chance....no tears, no sympathy, no whining, no victimhood...just the chance to be some place where they can learn to be clean and sober.
The strength of character that it takes to do this is incredible and many people simply do not have that in them.....ever.
That doesn't mean that those sad sacks ought to get a pass on trying to do better, ought to be enabled, wept with as hopeless, given money because they are "disabled" and certainly not rewarded with sympathy and money because they are weak. NO ONE is completely "helpless" except for the mentally ill/deficient, children and sick elderly.
Misplaced compassion gives HAND-OUTS; true compassion gives HAND-UPS. Huge difference. Going on and on and on about why they CAN'T defies the very meaning of being an AmerICAN.
I've heard ALL THE STORIES OF low self esteem, damaged lives, codependence, enabling -- all the jargon, drama and tears that women (and men) can dredge up on a DAILY basis. I call it the Land of 1001 Excuses. WhineyLand. he "Yeah...but" Excuses.
It will never stop, imho, because people WOULD RATHER do nothing, suffer, weep and weep some more....because what they would have to do to change things is simply TOO difficult to do. They will doom themselves and their children to repeat this horrific cycle.
The self-pity, misplaced compassion, victimhood and tears have to stop at some point. Often the point is when these women STOP thinking of themselves (Poor pitiful Pearl syndrome) and start thinking of their babies.
It's good that there are people like you and me. You weep with them and I tell them to stop weeping and grown some backbone. They need both, I suppose.
It's just that on this thread I only saw YOUR type and not mine.
Balance is needed, don't you think? [It's a rhetorical question. You don't have to answer. :o)]
This isnt targeted towards anybody in particular, but just wanted to clarify a few things... All four children belonged to Amanda and Trevor. They were together for about 17 years, but didnt marry until Feb. 2003. They met when she was 16 and he was 20 and started dating a year later. She did change her last name, but I think the media uses her last name so you wont confuse the two when reading the article.
I knew Trevor and he always bragged and showed pictures of his children. He loved his kids and wife so much.. I cant believe this happened. No matter what the circumstances, there is NEVER any excuse to kill innocent children. Just a plain tradegy.
Her friend called police who found Trimble lying in the street, hysterical but not physically hurt, officers said.
Yes, I read that a LONG time ago. No hole was filled. We aren't told why she was lying in the street, if someone put her there, or what.
One ASSUMES that IF she had gone in and seen the murders/suicide, she might do something other than run AWAY from her babies and husband, run OUT to the street, fall down for some reason and go hysterical.
Who called the cops? If someone called the cops, WHY did they? Because they heard shots? Saw mommy lying on the street hysterical? Did SHE call the cops?
Still too many holes.
Of course, we already KNOW that running away seems to be what she does when she had a problem with husband.
By the way, I've been in Hawaii the last week and a half....thus the delay in answering.
Read the line you have in red...it clearly says Her friend called police. How many times does that have to be pointed out to you?
You have NO IDEA how you would react to walking into your home and finding your family dead. You may do the same thing as she did.
I didn't give any opinion on that; I DIDN'T say that I knew how she reacted and if you could ACTUALLY read what I wrote and STOP putting words into my mouth, this discussion wouldn't keep making your comments appear so silly, ill-thought-out and redundant.
What is your problem with reading? Are you a graduate of the public school system or is something wrong with your brain in that you simply MUST inject words into my reply that simply AREN'T there?
Please DON'T contact me again, as you simply can't READ what's written.
Ignore button: ON
How convenient that you say I have a reading comprehension problem when you managed to miss, multiple times, the fact that her friend called the police. Even though that very sentence was put in front of you several times.
And no, you didn't give your opinion on how you would react to finding your family dead...you just refuse to believe she would collapse in the street from hysteria over the situation. Not everything is black and white...there are many shades of gray. People react to things differently.
Please don't contact trussell again.
I'm contacting you.
And what Trussell said makes a helluva lot more sense than temper tantrum that you just threw.
your attitude is very disturbing.....and , very revealing....
This person has cast blame and suspicion on the mother all through this thread. Refused to see and/or comprehend plain english as it was put in front of her...flamed others for their opinion and support of the mother. I think we are seeing a disruptor here.
1. If YOU think it's a "temper tantrum" to be fed up with people injecting words into my replies that aren't there, then good for you.
2. By the way, for you to interpret THAT as a "temper tantrum" is grossly overblown and melodramatic. Apparently you haven't witnessed real temper tantrums on this site. Lol.
3. For you to STILL be reading this thread, after all these pages, shows that you just MIGHT need a life. I've only been responding to "pings" -- you are actually keeping tabs and following along. Why? There are SO many other things to read here. Why on earth -- never mind. I don't really want to know. Mostly, I don't care.
4. Finally, if YOU think that "trussel" makes a "helluva lot more sense" with his replies, then I am really glad that you aren't on my side. HOTTIEBOY?! How old ARE you? You CHOSE that call sign? Lol. You CAN'T be over 14 years old. You CAN'T be!
5. Michael Goldsberry (Lt. Bruce C. Fryar USN 01-02-70 Laos) asked me not to contact him again. The lad is obviously just a kid. Too bad his protector (dad?) doesn't let him fight his own fights and take responsibility for his own words.
And too bad Mr. Goldsberry can't read EITHER. If he read my reply to his "trussel," then he would have seen that my IGNORE BUTTON WAS ALREADY ON! for junior. They must be from the same family -- with READING problems. Tsk. It's annoying to write and get responses -- after what I wrote WASN'T EVEN READ.
At least he was polite. THAT is a good thing.
cherry (.)
Your capturing words out of context is also very disturbing.....and , very revealing.....
You write just like the left-wing, radical, progressive liberals who take out-of-context sound bites and then use them to misrepresent and obfuscate the truth.
You have the makings of a true mainstream media, liberal, New York Times writer, after you take some writing lessons first, of course.
"The very definition of "enabler" is the "tolerator." If they feel that they "deserve it" then they are as SICK as the people who abuse them. "
I cant believe I didnt see this thread before.. but, now that I have:
I think you are a disgusting piece of crap. Where did you get such insight on abusers? Know any personally? You are a judgemental, narrow minded, piece of work.
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