DA plans to turn over more papers in lacrosse case (DukeLax)

The Herald-Sun ^ | June 22, 2006 | John Stevenson

[Sacajaweau]

So she was in the bathroom. The boys were shoving money under the door....AND...she was getting raped at the same time? Now, that doesn't make any sense at all.

Now all we need is a text message from Crystal to Kim's car to the bathroom saying "they're putting money under the door".

[abb]

A question to the group. Does Cheshire & Co. file more motions this next week and/or release more documents? When would be the best time (from a media impact standpoint) to release the information?

[TheSpottedOwl]

Yeah, it is very hard for me to understand how a Christain so devout he has had a Christian singing group for almost 40 years, would participate in Nifong's attempted lynching of these young men. You would think a Christian that devout would have a conscience that would not allow them to participate in such a thing as this.

That's like Kennedy, Kerry, etc., bloviating about what good Catholics they are. I'm holding my breath for the Pope to publicly excommunicate them for their views, which are contrary to Church teachings.

We all have to draw a line about what we do and what we don't do. The information coming out about the players in this debacle is amazing....and pretty scary. Wolves in sheep's clothing. Watch out for them.

[JLS]

I guess my question is: Do we know absolutely that she went to the hospital on the next day? Did the cops AND NiFong know about it? Did they advise her in any way? Did her attorney advise her in any way? Who was with her?

1. Yes we absolutely know she went the next day. We know that because Abrams talks about it on his former show on 19 June and mentions the sink. Abrams is a member for the old media who is out on a limb on this case compared to the what the old media wants to be the result, so I am sure he is being very very careful.

2. I doubt the cops or Nifong knew at the time. This case had not yet expode publically. You must always remember that the police did not believe her early on and Nifong had not yet perceived the political opportunity. More evidence of this is that she got the beating she was due and went to the hospital and said nothing of it. On the 15th as far as she was concerned, her lie has successfully kept her out of confinement and her life was back to normal, but that meant a beating for losing his money.

3. Since I conjecture they did not know about it, I conclude Nifong and the DPD did not advice her. V 4. For similar reasons, she had not consulted an attorney yet. She lied so she would not need or have to pay an attorney. At that point it appeared to her it had worked out.

5. Her pimp probably took her to the UNC ER. He likely said something like ok Ho you got what was coming to you, now lets go get you clean up and get your ass back on the street and makeup that money. Also his presents intimidates her into repeating the sink story faithfully at the hospital.

[ladyjane]

The dude was too ubiquitous and pretty near loquacious in the early days following the incident.

LOL - Ubiquitous and loquacious. Fifth grade "Build your Vocabulary" book.

[JLS]

PS. So I doubt any drug tests were done at UNC. The defense wants those records:

1. So no surprises hit them at trial.

2. To see what they can find to undermine her story. For example, would a real rape victim go to the ER the next day for something completely different and not mention the rape at all? I don't know. I am not a woman, but I could see a woman who was actually raped saying to the ER MD look I was also raped and reported it last night, do you see any damage to my privates? I mean once you wait that long, you might want the MD to look at all your recent issues?

[darbymcgill]

I think the "It's only $100." comment is probably in reference to having to shove 5 twenties under the door before Kim and Crystal left.

In Kim's big televised interview in which she "exposes" some of the "lies" being told by the defense she says something like..... (moving her head from side to side.. you know)

"and that part about them shoving $100...er...ahhh.... I mean shoving a 100 dollar bill under the BR door is a damn lie... didn't happen"

(finishing with a flurry of head bobbing and weaving)

How can you not believe a woman who can move her head like Kim? I wonder what they call that move on the street? We used to call street talk "jive" when I was a kid, but I never heard a word for the moving of the head side to side and up and down at the same time.. I recall seeing it mostly from women.. Maybe some of our younger, more "hip" contributors can provide input...

[Constitutions Grandchild]

Thanks. I appreciate your kind words -- I'm really, truly not trying to lecture or tell "our" story. If the contrasting of the two situations Duke's/ours can help people see more clearly that this isn't just a fluke, then I will have accomplished all I set out to do. To have a foundation established to save others from what we have gone through is like Heaven to me. I wish we'd had it. The three of us in our little boat were bailing like crazy and singing songs through the dark of night to keep from giving up.

After sharing with me, you have all helped me heal. I've shed the first tears I can remember since childhood thanks to those of you on this thread. My upper lip was so stiff, I couldn't laugh anymore and you all have given that back to me. Let's not let the good work started here go away when this is over -- and it will be. I have to go now or I won't be able to see my computer to finish my work today. Closing files at the office - Ugh - I need all the eyesight I can muster. If any one of the staff here ever manages to get the papers in the folders, I'll faint.

[Hogeye13]

pepperhead, I think that BS (Barry Saunders) may be on to something. Reread the paragraph where he mentions Dan Abrams. He is probably very close to being right about the stripper raping the players. I sent him an email asking that he and the N&O take the lead in investigating that possibility.

[JLS]

A question to the group. Does Cheshire & Co. file more motions this next week and/or release more documents? When would be the best time (from a media impact standpoint) to release the information?

I certainly expect a second motion to surpress the IDs this week or next. They should have more evidence about the photo arrays now. They will want the public to see how sleazy the IDs are.

I suspect the reason the first motion to quash the warrant was done in the name of one defendant only was in anticipation of further information they can include in a similar motion for another defendant, keeping in reserve the last defendant.

Personally, I would do such a motion now and try to get as quick a ruling as possible. It is the time for evidentuary rulings. Nifong's plans are such that if you lose, you can appeal before the trial. In addition as I said, you want the public to know as soon as possible that she really did not ID you.

[GAgal]

Rather than being beaten for losing the party money and taken to UNC MC, it makes more sense to me that she and person/s unknown thought more serious injuries would buttress her tale, and they were purposely inflicted with her permission sometime after leaving DMC. She may have feared being charged with making false statements to LE, and wanted more believable injuries/pics in case the police came calling.

[ltc8k6]

Shoot, her father might have beat her up for all we know. I wouldn't put anything past them.

Hopefully the defense can show that during her exams on the 14th she was basically uninjured and then on the 15th she looked like she had been beaten up, meaning it wasn't the LAX players.

Are durham cops known for beating people into telling the correct story?

[darbymcgill]

Quoting Barry "I wish is was still a Lion" Saunders

None is expected to attend today's hearing.

I may be exposing ignorance here and probably am, but is this proper...??? Who is "None" and why is he/she expected at the hearing?

[Crawdad]

"and that part about them shoving $100...er...ahhh.... I mean shoving a 100 dollar bill under the BR door is a damn lie... didn't happen"

They shoved 20-dollar bills. See how she corrected herself?

[TheSpottedOwl]

OK, is there a bank deposit record somewhere??

If there is, no one is talking. Did you realize that some folks don't have bank accounts? If she's sucking off the public trough, she wouldn't want a record of "earned income" anyway.

[Hogeye13]

I am glad to hear that we are in some small way helping you to heal. I agree with what you said about not letting the good work go away. This is as much a fight for our freedom as is being done by our military against terrorism. If we at FREE REPUBLIC don't continue to go after the people that will subvert our constitutional rights we only have ourselves to blame when we lose. Now that we know what the fight is all about and who the enemy is we have all the weapons needed today to defeat them. Talk radio and the internet are the best inventions in the last 20 years. It allows honest people to shed the light of truth into the underbelly. What we see is very disturbing and disgusting.

[TheSpottedOwl]

O'Mary said an investigation led deputies to raid the house, which was occupied by 32-year-old James Wheeler Mangum.

Is Mangum a common surname in that neck of the woods?

[JLS]

I don't think this is as complicated as that on the 15th. On the 15th she had lied her way out of confinement, the DPD knew she was lying but "modern rape sensitivity" required them to treat this clearly false claim seriously and nobody yet saw an advantage in this. Thus:

1. Nobody was conspiring with her to make her injuries look more serious. There was no reason to yet, plus she was at Duke and knew that would not work.

2. The cops had little interest in her at the time. She beat the system a little bit by not getting confined, but it also meant the cop only had to drop her off at Duke ER and be done with her. He was probably happy she pulled this scam.

It is very very very important in this to remember it was not a big deal on the 14th or 15th. It was only after Nifong facing his sagging internal polls and the Duke far left faculty started stirring things up that this became an important matter.

From the point of view of Mangum and more importantly her pimp it was business as usual on the 15th. From the point of view of the DPD, they did not even bother with securing 610 Buchannan as a crime scene. Everyone, Sgt Shelton, Office Sutton, Pittman [aka Roberts] that heard her story that night knew there was no rape.

Now maybe one of the unintended consequences of the beating is that stupid Nifong saw this opportunity and when he first saw her she was beat up some and that made him initially believe her story. I think he did initially believe with her confused story, DNA on and in her and her beat up appearance, that there was a rape. [The cops know she turns tricks, Nifong probably at that time did not.]

Nifong becomes culpable when the DNA comes back negative, he finds out she is a hooker and sees those injuries were post 14th in the physical exam. He worries if he does not charge anyone, he will lose the primary. So be commits a crime to win the primary.

[Constitutions Grandchild]

Yes, it's very common. Sounds like they marry their cousins. That could, in great part, explain Mr. Nifong.

[TommyDale]

Barry Saunders is a racist, plain and simple. He is the main reason I cancelled my subscription to the News & Observer.