A safer society? Legalize drugs

The Boston Globe ^ | June 6, 2006 | Bill Fried

[LowCountryJoe]

Meanwhile, politicians puff sanctimoniously about ``cleaning the streets" and ``ridding the projects of drug dealers

[Lazamataz]

"Baloney...Drug use has been a part of our culture since the beginning!"

Recreational drugs. And they have not.

In the program that I live and breath -- Narcotics Anonymous -- it is pointed out in the readings:

Thinking of alcohol as different from other drugs has caused a great many addicts to relapse. Before we came to NA, many of us viewed alcohol separately, but we cannot afford to be confused about this. Alcohol is a drug.

Alcohol is a mood-altering recreational drug. Period.

[Lazamataz]

tpaine! How ya doin', ya old coot! :^)

[Lazamataz]

that the motto out there on the street with these heroin druggies is "get high or die trying"

Most addicts -- and I was one of those (albiet not heroin) -- would gladly welcome death.

I actually TRIED to kill myself with cocaine in 2003. I failed, obviously. But I tried.

[Lazamataz]

Good idea, then all the druggies can overdose.

I'm a recovering druggie. Would you have wanted me to overdose?

[Lazamataz]

Because of the mindset of dopers (something to the effect of illegal is better) there will always be a huge black market for drugs.

You apparently either didn't spend enough time in the drug culture, or did so in the UK (where attitudes may differ).

But I am an addict in recovery, who has multiple years clean now, and I am here to tell you that NO doper I know would think illegal drugs are better. ALL would prefer to get legal drugs.

No cops that way.

[investigateworld]

First of all, my congratulations.
I based those comments on my own observations developed while working U/C. That's in addition to thousands of interviews and just plain conversation with users. The mere fact that you're a FReeper tells me you've got brains to spare. (Plus the thousand of amusing posts you make are an indication)
Thus, I would never consider you to be the typical or representative of that crowd.
I've dealt with idiots that could have just axed their mommy or daddy for the money, but choose to do a armed robbery for the money and the Kicks.
So, we'll have to agree to disagree.

[socialismisinsidious]

Glad you failed or your post would be really creepy. ; )

Have you ever seen the movie "Better Off Dead"?...stupid movie, filled with great lines.

Anyway, in that movie one character says to another "Sorry your mother blew up Rickie"....glad you didn't blow up Lazamataz.

[mugs99]

History of the Non-Medical Use of Drugs in the United States

"The history of drugs in this country perfectly mirrors the history of this country"...Charles Whitebread, Professor of Law, USC Law School

Yes, drugs are now and always have been a part of our culture. To win the War On Drugs you need to destroy the American culture.
.

[tpaine]

Lazamataz wrote:

tpaine! How ya doin', ya old coot! :^)

Still trying to wash my unclean hands of socialistic goo.. -- Sticky stuff..

Hows it hangin kiddo?

[tpaine]

To win the War On Drugs you need to destroy the American culture. .

Sorta makes you wonder about the warriors real agenda, doesn't it?

[mugs99]

No wondering about it. The sheeple herders can't tolerate individualism.

[robertpaulsen]

Smoking opium was never part of our culture. Sub-culture perhaps, due to the Chinese immigrants.

"It was not until the post civil war Chinese 'guest workers' that opium fell from favor."

Yeah, fell from favor because it was starting to spead into our culture. You making my case for me.

[robertpaulsen]

"Robby, the prohibitionistic socialist faction you represent ..."

If I represent any faction it's the law and order conservative one. And they favor cutting off welfare. So let's not mischaracterize my position in order to make an argument.

[robertpaulsen]

"How bout if the people so rule? What's to stop out of control welfare schemes in a State where paulsen says the US Constitution can be ignored? [see below]"

How the citizens of some state vote to rule themselves doesn't affect me or my philosophy.

I'm pro-gun, but if the people of California vote to prohibit certain weapons, who am I to criticize? If they vote to provide free education and free welfare to their citizens, why is this any skin off my nose? As long as their decisions don't affect me, they can do whatever their state constitution allows. (That's the definition of federalism, by the way, the type of government our Founding Fathers established. If you had forgotton.)

I've got my hands full in Illinois, for crying out loud.

[robertpaulsen]

Where did I say people didn't use recreational drugs? I said their use was never part of our culture -- they were always part of the sub-culture.

According to your definition, homosexuality is part of our culture and always has been. Do you agree? Is that how you would describe American culture?

Here, maybe this will help:

Culture: The system of shared beliefs, values, customs, behaviours, and artifacts that the members of society use to cope with their world and with one another, and that are transmitted from generation to generation through learning.

If it meets that definition, it's part our our culture.

[robertpaulsen]

"Thinking of alcohol as different from other drugs has caused a great many addicts to relapse."

If alcohol weren't any different you'd be attending AA instead of NA.

"Alcohol is a mood-altering recreational drug. Period."

Must I spell out every statement I make? I thought I was dealing with adults on this forum -- obviously not.

Alcohol, tobacco, caffeine ... all have been part of the American culture. Recreational drugs such as marijuana, opium, heroin, and cocaine have not.

Quit wasting my time with your equivocating.

[Lazamataz]

If alcohol weren't any different you'd be attending AA instead of NA.

You aren't taking issue with MY position, you are taking issue with the position of the 1 million plus estimated members of Narcotics Anonymous.

I will take the opinion of 1 million people who've been there / done that and are working successful programs, over the opinion of one uninformed fellow on the internet.

"We cannot afford to be confused about this: Alcohol is a drug." -- Narcotics Anonymous Basic Text, pp 18

[tpaine]

Robby, the prohibitionistic socialist faction you represent will ~never~ agree to "cutting off welfare". --

If I represent any faction it's the law and order conservative one. And they favor cutting off welfare. So let's not mischaracterize my position in order to make an argument.

I'm making my argument by pointing out your position; -- not "mischaracturizing" it.

--- 'Social benefit programs' give you prohibitionists the excuse needed for more control over society. - Which is the main agenda.
Nice spin on your normal agitprop tho... [paulsen supports] socialist style prohibitions on most any-damn-thing.
--- Coupled with constantly supporting 'majority rule' schemes...
Anyone that committed to 'controlling society' is suspect in my estimation .

paulsen: I'll end the suspense -- I'm anti-welfare.

How bout if the people so rule? What's to stop out of control welfare schemes in a State where paulsen says the US Constitution can be ignored?

How the citizens of some state vote to rule themselves doesn't affect me or my philosophy.

Anti-constitutional prohibitions affect all of us.

I'm pro-gun, but if the people of California vote to prohibit certain weapons, who am I to criticize?

There you go, proving you're a pro-gun prohibitionist.

If they vote to provide free education and free welfare to their citizens, why is this any skin off my nose?

There you go, proving you're a pro- welfare socialist.

As long as their decisions don't affect me, they can do whatever their state constitution allows.

Anti-constitutional state enactments affect all of citizens of the USA.

(That's the definition of federalism, by the way, the type of government our Founding Fathers established. If you had forgotton.)

Our US Constitution is our supreme law. [if you had forgotton] -- Read Art VI.

I've got my hands full in Illinois, for crying out loud.

The people of Illinois, and California, and a number of other states all have there "hands full" due to majority rule zealots who ignore our Constitution..

[robertpaulsen]

"Anti-constitutional state enactments affect all of citizens of the USA."

The Texas sodomy law was deemed an "anti-constitutional state enactment" -- were you affected by that?

[tpaine]

"..Drug use has been a part of our culture since the beginning!"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

robbie says no, at #234:

Recreational drugs. And they have not.

Where did I say people didn't use recreational drugs?

At post #234, mr nitpicker.

I said their use was never part of our culture -- they were always part of the sub-culture.

Pick those nits.

Here, maybe this will help:
Culture: The system of shared beliefs, values, customs, behaviours, and artifacts that the members of society use to cope with their world and with one another, and that are transmitted from generation to generation through learning.
If it meets that definition, it's part our our culture.

So? -- The fact remains that recreational drug use has always been part of american culture. Deal with it.