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Immigration Solutions Thread - Part 1 - How to Secure the U.S. Southern Borders
May 18, 2006 | ClancyJ

Posted on 05/18/2006 8:47:15 PM PDT by ClancyJ

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To: ClancyJ

POINT #5 ASSIMILATION

- End the myth of Birthright citizenship
- End the diversity quota
- Make English the official language of the United States


21 posted on 05/18/2006 9:44:02 PM PDT by WOSG (Do your duty, be a patriot, support our Troops - VOTE!)
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To: WOSG

What diversity quota do we have - we are overrun with Hispanics?.


22 posted on 05/18/2006 9:45:35 PM PDT by ClancyJ (To cause a democrat to win is the most effective way to destroy this country.)
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To: ClancyJ
I agree - we are quickly become the minority.

If I was a white man living in India, I'd say India should remain majority Indian. It's not about "we".

But it's the perfect question to ask the open borders politicians publicly:

"Do you believe the US should stay a white majority country?"

Watch the horrified look on their face as their minds scramble for a way to dodge the question. Then ask them:

"Which white countries do you think should stay white majority countries and which should become white minority countries?"

When the question is asked, everyone who hears it suddenly realizes it is a legitimate and extremely important question considering the direction things are headed.

23 posted on 05/18/2006 9:47:45 PM PDT by Jim_Curtis
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To: CindyDawg

Oh, right - assuming by that time that there will not be under the table cash work available as all employers will be tied into using workers with the new ID's and could be fined for using non-documented workers.

Still - I don't see an end to the "cash" work. And, I just can't personally see that they are going to be willing to return. Hope there will be strong deportation procedures or exit strategies. This looks like a big problem area but at least we will know who they are and their background.


24 posted on 05/18/2006 9:51:24 PM PDT by ClancyJ (To cause a democrat to win is the most effective way to destroy this country.)
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To: ClancyJ

It's a mess.


25 posted on 05/18/2006 9:53:22 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: ClancyJ
It is weird - when we did not have any troop options, we had Arizona's sheriff deputizing thousands to patrol the borders themselves, we had minutemen volunteering.

Now that we have Bush putting Guard there - we will see all kind of backing off of allowing the guard, misusing the guard or claiming it is the wrong way to go.

But, you are right - especially in California. If they don't want the Guard, then provide their own people to man the borders.

That Sheriff in AZ is an honest to God decent man. As an elected official he might as well be from Mars. His prisoners wear pink underwear, he was arresting illegals, etc. This problem would be nonexistent if we had more men like him.
26 posted on 05/18/2006 9:55:43 PM PDT by Jaysun (Even with a paddle, shit creek ain't no picnic.)
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To: ClancyJ

When caught the illegal should be tagged with a micro-chip. In this manner we could track them if they return again. The micro-chip can be activated at anytime and have a GPS locator.


27 posted on 05/18/2006 9:55:48 PM PDT by Doc91678 (Doc91678)
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To: Doc91678

That sounds good to me but is eerily a reminder of the "mark of the beast" coming in the "latter days"

Also, a new industry would be formed, coyotes would perform border surgery to remove "chips" - for a fee.

But, you are thinking outside the box and that is what our government cannot do.


28 posted on 05/18/2006 9:59:45 PM PDT by ClancyJ (To cause a democrat to win is the most effective way to destroy this country.)
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To: CindyDawg

But, we work through one problem area at a time and chip away at it.

President Bush is just the "big picture" guy. They expect others to make it work.


29 posted on 05/18/2006 10:01:48 PM PDT by ClancyJ (To cause a democrat to win is the most effective way to destroy this country.)
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To: ClancyJ

Wall.
National Data Base with finger prints, picture and dna
Employer liability.
Stop access to regular free public school education at 14k each.
Stop giving anchor baby birth certificates.
Have a worker program where they come and work then leave.
Deny entrance to those that broke our laws or remove them.
More walls.


30 posted on 05/18/2006 10:02:56 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: ClancyJ

Secure the border and go from there, I guess.


31 posted on 05/18/2006 10:03:00 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: A CA Guy

I like the use of DNA as identification but are they able to do it on a mass basis quickly?

I like your list. If committing a felony would be grounds for deportation, the lawlessness might be curtailed.


32 posted on 05/18/2006 10:12:03 PM PDT by ClancyJ (To cause a democrat to win is the most effective way to destroy this country.)
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To: ClancyJ
They can take the picture, Finger prints and just take a drop of blood to process for the purposes of linking up to any future crimes.

For many business licenses they require FBI searches and prints, so we can have two kinds of employment.

One
Log term by one employer who must by law verify the legality of the employee.

Two
A legal worker temp agency, where daily or part time workers could be verified and sent out on a short term basis. The liability for legality verification can be with the temp agency instead of the short term employer.

That is what I would do.
33 posted on 05/18/2006 10:18:09 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: ClancyJ

The majority of crime according seems to be from illegals in our state and there had to be an increase in prisons to take on the 50% increase in crime.

So we do have to do something.


34 posted on 05/18/2006 10:19:21 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: ClancyJ

On immigration, here is a link to the article I wrote:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1059957/posts


Relevent part included here, specific policies to follow:


We need both the carrot and the stick to end the current inducements to illegal immigration. What is the best way to do this?

1. Massively improve our lax, inefficient and hapless enforcement of immigration law.

2. Change the immigration laws themselves to end 'chain migration' and 'anchor babies' that encourage forms of illegal entry and behavior.

3. Give a reasonable incentive for decent prospects for employers and immigrants wanting to work together, in a way that doesnt open the immigration 'floodgates'.

In the following sections, we present proposals that would do all of the above. But if we did all this, it would beg the question of whether indeed we needed the guest worker program. Only if we wanted more cheap (but legal) labor.

PROPOSALS - IMPROVING ENFORCEMENT:

According to FAIR: "The CIR [Jordan commission] recommended additional barriers to illegal employment, including a computerized registry to verify work eligibility and the full use of already-existing (but seldom invoked) penalties against employers who knowingly hire illegal aliens." - http://www.fairus.org/ImmigrationIssueCenters/ImmigrationIssueCenters.cfm?ID=1169&c=12

1. Create verifiable documentation for use in employment to stop documentation fraud. Set up a national database for document verification so document fraud is tracked down and stopped. Require employers to verify employment and hold employers responsible for hiring illegal aliens. " It is remarkable to note that in 2002, [only] 13 businesses nationwide were fined by the Immigration and Naturalization Service for knowingly employing illegal aliens. ... One simple change could put teeth into the law. Employers should be required to confirm that the Social Security number presented by a worker has in fact been issued to that worker. A computerized database, much like the nationwide instant-background check used to verify gun buyers, could handle that job easily. Such a database already exists, but it is seldom used. " - Jay Bookman A program called the Basic Pilot program has been working which verifies identifications. It is currently a voluntary program, it works, and it can be extended as a required program for the Government and private employers. Documentation fraud is a common way for illegal aliens to get employment even in Government, and verification against that is a certain way to cut down on documentation fraud by illegal aliens: "In July 2003, a federal grand jury indicted 44 people for the use of fake ?green cards? to gain employment at the U.S. Air Force Academy. In October 2003, about 60 illegal alien workers were found to be working on a construction project for a new federal courthouse in Miami. Numerous cases of illegal alien workers have been uncovered working with fake identity documents at U.S. airports as a result of ?Operation Tarmac.? Even the U.S. Army has been duped into enlisting illegal aliens using phony immigration documents. See, for example, Deseret News, October 5, 2003; The New York Times, July 16, 2003; Rocky Mountain News, September 2, 2003; and The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, November 7, 2003." http://www.fairus.org/ImmigrationIssueCenters/ImmigrationIssueCenters.cfm?ID=2314&c=13

1b. We should also develop and make the social security ID card a tamper-proof and fraud-proof form of identification, to reduce the abuse and fraud. Tom Tancredo has included this idea in his reform proposals.

1c. The Federal govt should discourage the issuance of driver's licenses to illegal aliens. HR. 3235, the Responsible and Secure ID Act, introduced by Rep. Duncan Hunter, would withhold federal transportation funding from states issuing driver?s licenses to illegal aliens. States should put some form of visa/citizen status on driver's licences, and ensure that the expiration date of driver's licenses doesnt extend beyond the expiration date of valid visas. H.R. 655 would bar Federal agencies from accepting for any identification-related purposes a state-issued driver's license, or other comparable identification document, unless the document issued to a nonimmigrant alien expires at the same time as the alien's authorized period of stay in the United States. This is needed both for homeland security purposes, and because issuing drivers licenses to illegal aliens hampers enforcement of immigration law. http://www.fairus.org/Legislation/Legislation.cfm?ID=2284&c=66

2. Pass laws and use verifiable documentation to end immigration benefit fraud as well. It is rampant (see the GAO, http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d0266.pdf)

3. Increase alien detention space so that aliens ready for deportation are held in detention and not released to the streets where they merely evade deportation. Increase bail requirements for aliens to be released during deportation processes.

4. Abolish the EOIR (Executive office for Immigration Review) and the BIA (Board of Immigration Appeals); their work is redundant and these agencies are part of a system not designed to deport aliens that deserve to be deported, but designed to frustrate the enforcement of immigration law. What is wrong with EOIR? EOIR routinely grants "green cards" (lawful permanent resident status) to illegal aliens, and allows convicted criminal aliens to remain in the United States. As Michelle Malkin suggests in her book "Invasion": "Attorney General John Ashcroft should abolish the Executive Office for Immigration Review and the Board of Immigration Appeals and transfer their functions to existing law enforcement officers within the immigration bureaucracy. ... Restoring integrity to the immigration process will require closing the loopholes and black holes into which so many fugitive absconders, criminal aliens, and unwelcome guests have disappeared. " - Michelle Malkin INS and Border Patrol Counsels could replace this byzantine process and administrative removal orders could be given administratively.

5. Fund the FBI's enforcement of immigration law so that it is a priority for the agency. In particular, increase funding to enforce laws against employing illegal aliens.

6. Increase funding and manpower of U.S. Border Patrol. Increased border vigilance has in the past lowered crime and improved border security; we need more of it. If needed, assign US. military troops to help the Border Patrol regain control of our border. Use practical technology where helpful - fences, UAVs, motion detectors - to manage the borders so there are less border crossings.

7. Give incentives and rewards to private citizens who turn in or report illegal aliens who are subsequently deported.

8. Encourage local law enforcement to enforce immigration law as well. H.R. 2671, the Clear Law Enforcement for Criminal Alien Removal Act, would give state and local law enforcement agencies the authority and resources needed to detain criminal illegal aliens within the course of their regular duties. It would also create a new grant program for the purchase of equipment for housing and processing illegal aliens.

9. Abolish 245(i) and other provisions of stealth amnesty that have been put there through law or court rulings. Criminal aliens should be deported without exceptions. For example, a loophole that gives women citizenship or LPR status for "spousal abuse" is an open invitation for fraud; men's lives have been destroyed by false allegations designed by illegal aliens to gain citizenship they wouldnt otherwise be entitled to. End that loophole in 204(a)(1)(A)(iii) of the immigration act. Hardship cases where felons are allowed to remain here because their dependents are here is also an open invitation to flout rules.

10. Do not accept nor allow the use of foreign ID or "matriculas" for use in banking, to obtain any Government aid or as an ID for any purpose.

CHANGING THE INCENTIVES FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS AND IMMIGRATION:

"There are many reasons immigration has returned to the high levels not seen since the beginning of the 20th century. One key factor is chain migration (the process whereby an immigrant who becomes a U.S. citizen is allowed to sponsor family members for obtaining immigrant visas). Other reasons are: illegal immigration; the amnesties which have allowed immigrants to make the transition to legal status and obtain green cards without leaving the country;and immigration law violators. Setting aside the problem of illegal immigration for a moment, the current system of legal immigration is not in accord with national needs, fuels undesirable population increase and cries out for major reform." -Jack Martin http://www.afsa.org/fsj/jun01/martinjune01.cfm

1. Granting automatic citizenship to the children of illegals born in the US must end. Children born here of foreigners should not automatically become US citizens, unless at least one parent is a legal US resident or citizen. Illegal aliens, those on temporary visas (under 1 yr) and diplomats would all be exempted from this as being foreigners "not under the jurisdiction of the United States". The 14th amendment is clear that people under the jurisdiction of the US born here are citizens. But it was not intended to apply to illegal aliens or other aliens in our country having kids, and illegal aliens are under the jurisdiction of their country of citizenship not ours. H.R. 1567 would amend the Immigration and Nationality Act to deny citizenship at birth to children born in the United States to parents who are not citizens or legal permanent resident aliens.

2. Restrict Federal public assistance to non-citizens except emergency health care. Per federal law (Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act), no one can be turned away for basic emergency services. Amend it so labor and non-life-threatening health services are not a Federal requirement unless there is legal residency status. This misuse of hospitals by illegal aliens is expensive and self-perpetuating.

3. Repeal aspects of the 1965 immigration laws that distort our immigration patterns and reward 'least likely to success' immigrants in the legal permanent residency lottery.
A. End family sponsorship and 'chain migration'. Do not let adult parents and siblings of immigrants from getting in on family sponsorship. Family sponsorship should be restricted to the sons, daughters and spouses of citizens and permanent residents. These changes were a key part of the proposal of the Jordan commission on immigration. They should be adopted.
B. Place hard limits on immigration. Just as there are limits for employer sponsored categories, there should be a total hard limit of legal immigration. It should be not more than .2% of population per year, or about 700,000 per year. Lower limits are both possible and desireable.
3c. "Prioritize skilled workers over unskilled workers: The CIR recommended reducing the ceiling for employment-sponsored immigration, ending unskilled immigration, and ending the diversity visa lottery."
3d. We should use only the temporary worker visa for the unskilled workers, ie, discourage the use of a permanent employer sponsorship for the unskilled worker. We should set fees on the temporary worker visa program so that extremely low-wage employment is discouraged in this program. Guest workers should not bring their families unless the pay for the employment is more than twice the poverty-level wage. The reason for this is to discourage a 'race to the bottom' that hurts the wage rates of Americans on the bottom rung of the economic ladder. It should not be our policy to import workers simply to undercut those Americans most in need of employment opportunities.
3e. We should also end the 'diversity' visa programs that encourages 80% of immigration to come from the third world, while excessively discouraging European immigration. This is related to the previous 2 points, as the 'diversity' visa program in effect is a discouragement of the potentially most skilled immigrants and encouragement of least skilled immigrants from 3rd world countries. This is counterproductive to the most effective immigration policy. H.R. 775, the Security and Fairness Enhancement for America Act, introduced by Rep. Bob Goodlatte (R-VA), would repeal this problematic program, which suffers from fraud and abuse by illegal aliens. http://www.fairus.org/Legislation/Legislation.cfm?ID=2288&c=66
3f. A simple replacement for this would be to restrict immigration so that no more than 20% of our immigration comes from any one country.

3g. "Simplify immigration categories: The CIR supported the basic set-up of our current immigration system, which divides immigrants into categories, but recommended that the categories be simplified to three: nuclear family members, professional and skilled workers, and refugees/other humanitarian admissions." http://www.fairus.org/ImmigrationIssueCenters/ImmigrationIssueCenters.cfm?ID=1169&c=12
3h. Require all future immigrants to declare their future intent to bring in family upon arrival. This way, families can immigrate in a controlled, orderly fashion without the current deceptions being used against the American public

4. Language: Change bilingual education to be a fast-track to English proficiency in the schools. Restore English-speaking requirements for citizenship.

5. Prohibit affirmative action preferences for non-citizens in Govt contracting. (Actually we should simply end affirmative action preferences period.)

6.Forbid any social security benefits to be paid out to illegal aliens who used fraudulent documents to obtain employment. This is simply a common-sense matter of not rewarding those who have broken the law from benefitting from their fraud. This also would add to the strain on the social security system. H.R. 1631 (Dana Rohrbacher sponsor) would prohibit illegal aliens from cashing into the Social Security system for any period of time during which the alien is not allowed to be employed.

7. Compile biometric information on Illegals, and declare that they will be permanently ineligible for citizenship.

Guest worker provisions:

1.We should punish those countries that are the soure of illegal immigration, by adopting a rule where if the country is the source of excessive illegal immigration, the legal immigration quota is commensurately reduced. Any country participating in this program cannot be responsible for allowing more than 10,000 of their citizens a year to be caught breaking our immigration laws. They can evade this limit by working with us by jailing those caught breaking our immigration laws. For example, with this provision we could induce Mexican law enforcement to help find and jail "coyotes" who assist illegal border crossers and get help and commitment from Mexico to battle illegal immigration from their side.

2. No temporary worker or his/her family and/or offspring shall qualify for any non-emergency public assistance program.

3. Instead of the employment having to be at least 125% of poverty wages to have the family join, make it 200% of poverty wages. This will make the need for public assistance for families less.

BAD IDEAS

The bad idea category is any form of amnesty to illegal immigration. This is the way to go if you want an uncontrolled system of immigration, But while Republicans oppose blanket amnesty many have signed on to feel-good legislation that amounts to mini amnesties. 'amnesty' is a term that could also be applied to the McCain version of the guest worker program, with an explicit visa category for illegal aliens.

This includes the use of 245(i) amnesties, which should be abolished not extended. It also includes the attempt to grant amnesty to ag workers through a massive expansion of that guest worker program. "Amnesty recipients under S. 1645 would need only to work 360 hours of agricultural work (the equivalent of 45 eight hour days) within seven years to receive a green card." And this uses an expansive definition of an agricultural worker to include landscapers. So an illegal alien landscaper for a mere season in the last 7 years need only make a claim, with poor documentation that is wide open to fraud, and they are amnestied, along with their entire family. These bills will only make our illegal immigration population larger, as it will induce many to come to America first and then try to get amnesty second. Do we want that? Indeed a question may be asked: If a new guest worker program is proposed, isnt it redundant with an agricultural guest worker program?

The DREAM Act (S.1545, cosponsored by Orrin Hatch) would allow illegal aliens to attend state universities at in-state tuition rates, while unfairly denying those benefits to U.S. citizens and legal immigrants from other states. The bill would also grant amnesty to college-bound and other illegal aliens as well as provide legal status to the family members of these illegal aliens through chain migration. There is no upper age limit on eligibility. Nor shuold we add to in-state costs of legal residents by letting the children of illegal aliens get in-state tuition rates.

CONCLUSION

Thus the formula for success is a balanced and complete reform, not one that adds just another visa to the pile. A small guest worker program, vigorous enforcement of law, and end chain migration and anchor babies. then we would have a saner policy: more space for the 'workers only' migrants, no flood of illegal aliens, and a manageable labor influx that doesn't hurt American workers.

In the House, elements of these reforms are being proposed. Tom Tancredo has pushed a bill in the House that embodies most of these principles.

In the mid-1990s, the Jordan Commission looked into our policies on immigration and came to the same broad conclusions. They said: "The credibility of immigration policy can be measured by a simple yardstick: people who should get in do get in; people who should not get in are kept out; and people who are judged deportable are required to leave." - Jordan Commission on Immigration Reform These goals should be in our minds as we go about fixing the broken immigration system.


35 posted on 05/18/2006 10:24:03 PM PDT by WOSG (Do your duty, be a patriot, support our Troops - VOTE!)
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To: A CA Guy

Good ideas.


36 posted on 05/18/2006 10:25:03 PM PDT by ClancyJ (To cause a democrat to win is the most effective way to destroy this country.)
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To: ClancyJ

I bet the bulk of the United States would love them as well.

We secure our borders, give a legal path to working here and deport those that continue to break our laws.

We have to do that and we have to work inland to remove problem people.

I figure if we deport a bunch daily, over time we could remove the gangs and those that will not go by our laws.


37 posted on 05/18/2006 10:29:05 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: WOSG

Which is why they are saying do it all as a package or it won't work rather than piecemeal. Too hard to get legislators to take up immigration, to hard to get anything through, too politically charged.

I will have to read your material tomorrow - got to get to sleep, my eyelids are mere slits right now.


38 posted on 05/18/2006 10:30:20 PM PDT by ClancyJ (To cause a democrat to win is the most effective way to destroy this country.)
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To: ClancyJ

IMO .. stop funding the social programs for the illegals


39 posted on 05/19/2006 2:54:17 AM PDT by Mo1 (DEMOCRATS: A CULTURE OF TREASON)
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To: ClancyJ

"But, in two years time, they can have created a home, had a child that is now an American citizen."

The law used to be that a child born in the US did not become a 'citizen' until that child became 21. He could be returned to his home country and could not apply for citizenship until 21. Of course, at 21, that child was no longer a child and could not bring his family into the country if his citizenship was granted. The child, upon turning 21, was almost guaranteed citizenship and went to the head of the line for admittance. Why not return to the old law?


40 posted on 05/19/2006 3:19:52 AM PDT by DugwayDuke (Stupidity can be a self-correcting problem.)
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