Rape Accuser Had Photo ID'd Possible DNA Match

NBC CHANNEL 17 ^ | 5/11/06

[RecallMoran]

I think that there as been a move for some time to eliminate the frat system and make Duke more "ivy league." When we were there my now husband was Chairman of the Academic Affairs Committee (which I thought was dorky but I married him anyway). They found that when freshmen lived with upperclassmen they tended to stay in school and make better grades. They also found that freshmen living in all freshmen dorms gave more money to the university later in life because they had a larger sense of class unity. The next year Duke moved to putting freshmen in all freshmen dorms and began "dining clubs" where students were supposed to eat with certain professors each night. I don't know if that ever took off but it smacked of the Yale/Princeton/harvard "eating clubs."
There was a certain security in partying on main west that doesn't exist the farther you go from the core of the campus. You can't stop partying but there was always some fear of being caught doing anything too bad on main west.

[RecallMoran]

I've probably watched too much CSI but if you can get a match off a cigarette butt how can you not get a match from tissue cells?

[Jezebelle]

I think they recovered all 13 loci but the number of matching loci is too low to qualify as a "match." One skin cell would have complete DNA, so there doesn't need to be a glob of "tissue."

[FlowJo]

I live in Garden City, NY and my son attends Chaminade, the high school that Colin Finnerty went to. Flannery is from Garden City and went to Garden City High school. There are also a few others on the roster from town. I don't know anything about Evans.

I don't know the families personally but the Finnerty's are a well-to-do family, and I assume the others from Garden City are financially OK. This town is considered a wealthy community. Long Island, in general is expensive to live on. As far as Zash, Massapequa is a south shore community that has a history of the wealthy side and the working class side (long island is also extremely segregated). Most of the Massapequa communities on the south side are along the Atlantic Ocean, and therefore would be the wealthier side. I do not know where in Massapequa Zash lives. If you remember, Massapequa is famous for "The Long Island Lolita - Joey (trash) Buttafucco. LOL

[Jezebelle]

It most certainly does.

[Vn_survivor_67-68]

Partial Profiles

Use of "partial profiles" is a newly emerging and fairly disturbing trend. A partial profile is one in which not all of the loci targeted show up in the sample. For example, if 13 loci were targeted, and only 9 could be reported, that would be termed, a partial profile. Failure of all targeted loci to show up demonstrates a serious deficiency in the sample. Normally, all human cells (except red blood cells and cells called "platelets") have all 13 loci. Therefore, a partial profile represents the equivalent of less than a single human cell. This presents some important problems:

1. A partial profile essentially proves that one is operating outside of well-characterized and recommended limits.

2. Contaminating DNA usually presents as a partial profile, although not always. For this reason, the risk that the result is a contaminant is greater than for samples that present as full profiles.

3. A partial profile is at risk of being incomplete and misleading. The partial nature of it proves that DNA molecules have been missed. There is no way of firmly determining what the complete profile would have been, except by seeking other samples that may present a full profile.

Most forensic laboratories will try to obtain full profiles. Unfortunately, in an important case, it may be tempting to use a partial profile, especially if that is all that one has. However, such profiles should be viewed skeptically. Over-interpretation of partial profiles can probably lead to serious mistakes. Such mistakes could include false inclusions and false exclusions, alike. It could be said that, compared to the first PCR-based tests introduced into the courts, use of partial profiles represents a decline in standards. This is because those earlier tests, while less discriminating, had controls (known as "control dots") that helped prevent the use of partial profiles. The earlier tests will be discussed below, primarily for historic reasons, but also because they do still appear on occasion.

http://www.scientific.org/tutorials/articles/riley/riley.html

[JLS]

JLS: If this case starts negatively affecting Duke,

LJ You've got to be kidding.
__________________________________________________________

I agree with you. Others argued with me early on on this point. Thus I made my comment conditional to avoid that discussion on this point.

[toldyou]

"Can i get an Amen, ladies?"

Absolutely. I agree with you.

This whole nail thing is ridiculous. But the media keeps saying DNA under fingernail or acrylic fingernails. That way, it truly sounds like there was a struggle with scratching, etc.

I have acrylics and they are adhered to the real nail with a strong resin....done at a salon. There is no chance of losing one of them, as opposed to the press-ons...the press-ons will fall off with the very slightest touch!

[Neverforget01]

And don't leave out Matt Danowski of Farmingdale. I think his dad is the coach of the #2 ranked lacrosse team at Hofstra. He may also be a captain-not sure.

[JLS]

I was reading up on this yesterday. Not only did it say that 13 markers are necessary, it continued: Conversely, if there aren't 13 markers, the guy is innocent. So almost simply doesn't cut it as possible...it eliminates the person
_______________________________________________

This is true if they have all the markers in the evidence. I think in this case they do not.

What they have is a bit of evidence, a very tiny bit, with some number of markers less than 13. The player in question matches all the markers they have, but they do not have enough for a match. Do they have 12 or 6 markers will be important information.

[Locomotive Breath]

I thought that maybe some of the 13 were more fragile or harder to extract than others.

Well then this beats the hell out of me.

How can they
1) extract all 13 from lax player #3 and
2) extract all 13 from the "tissue" and
3) find some that DO match but
4) find some that DON'T match

and then declare that there's any relevance at all? It seems to me that a no match on any of the 13 is a no match for the entire sample. What am I missing?

[Jezebelle]

I don't think you're missing anything. I think Nifong is missing something, and that something is.....evidence, including admissable DNA evidence! ;>

[FlowJo]

yup, danowski father the coach of Hofstra. I read that his Dad encouraged him to play somewhere other than Hofstra so that he wouldn't have his dad coaching him. Although that seems to be the right call, I'm sure his dad is kicking himself right now.

[Sacajaweau]

Who's to say she didn't take a swipe at one of the boys. She was freakin' pi***** and women tend to grab with their nails. But turning a scratch into rape and NO OTHER DNA ON HER CLOTHING from not just one but all three boys is a real stretch.

[Neverforget01]

So we have to surmise the sample was so small they couldn't extract all 13 markers. Yet the AV clawed away and only came up with a minute sample?

Finally, the girl was asked to leave, they slipped money under the door asking her to leave according to Kim who was/wasn't in the bathroom with her? Is it possible the guys "helped" her out the door? They did lock her out.

Bottom line, none of this is evidence of rape.

[Locomotive Breath]

So from Vn_survivor_67-68's post it would appear that a failure to match all 13 is generally a failure to extract some of the 13 from the "tissue" which makes the "tissue" compromised.

This makes more sense to me than successfully extracting all 13 from the "tissue" and then having some of them mismatch. It seems to me that if even there is one mismatch from a successful extraction of 13 then that would be the basis for an overall "no match".

[za_claws]

Forgive me I'm trying to catch up and work at the same time.
How sure are we that #3 lived in the house and is one of these three guys? That is correct right?

David Evans

Matt Zash

Dan Flannery

[Locomotive Breath]

I think "small" is not the exactly correct description because as Jeze points out even one cell has it all. So I think "compromised" or "damaged" is better.

The point is that there was a vanishingly small amount of DNA on the nail that could have gotten there from any number of mechanisms.

I agree with your bottom line.

[JLS]

Who's to say she didn't take a swipe at one of the boys.
_______________________________________________________

It is not even that:

1. She may have set a nail on the sink and picked up a partial cell or two.

2. He may have sneezed in the room she was in.

3. The nail may have hit tissue paper in the waste basket and picked up a cell or two if had recently blown his nose.

4. He may have picked up the nails up and toss them in the waste basket and left a cell or two or part of a cell on one nail.

5. He may have stepped on a nail on the floor going to the bathroom.

No one disputes they were in the same house together. She is not claiming she was attacked in her house, she was in his house.

AND YET THERE IS STILL NO DNA MATCH BETWEEN ANYONE AT THE HOUSE AND HER. THEY GAVE HER A WIDE BERTH.

[Sacajaweau]

That's what I read yesterday. Without 13 matches, the "supposed perp" is excluded. It is not him.

I'm not sure how DNA computes but guessing that say "8" of the boys would match 5 markers....as in a general population data base??