Case Aganst Duke Student Unraveling Fast

ABC GMA | Chris Cummo

[Steve_Seattle]

According to the prosecutor's affidavits, the dancers arrived at 11:30, the rape last for 30 minutes, and everything was over by 12:30. Even without the photo evidence, Seligmann can prove he was gone by 12:19, which means he would probably have called the cab somewhere between 12:00 and 12:10, right as the alleged rape was getting underway, and he would have been gone from the house nearly 12 minutes before the assault allegedly ended. The alleged victim did not say that one of her attackers left the bathroom before the assault ended. Is it plausible that Seligmann would call a cab, and then immediately participate in a gang rape? I don't think so, so I don't think they need the photo evidence. But the photo evidence helps further undermine the stripper's version of events.

[snarkytart]

Maggie!

WRAL is reporting that she picked them out from scratches on their bodies!


HAHAHA..............she picked out guys with scratches on their bodies -- guys that weren't there
_________________________________

OMG...I am really speechless.

[F.J. Mitchell]

I'll bet that Nifong, due to the absence of any DNA evidence, opines that an imaginary blow poker, that he will never be able to locate was the instrument of rape, sodomy, etc., in this case.

It Worked in the M. Peterson case.

[Carling]

Well, if DNA has come back positive on these three and if the timeline fit (or was even known), I wouldn't be using her name. As it is, this is clearly a bogus case and the indictments are based solely on her "100%" identification of the two charged suspects.

Only the Katelyn Fabers, Tawana Brawleys, and now Crystal Mangums of the world get this treatment from me.

[Carling]

I don't even know what the DA's timeline is for this fiasco.

I imagine he doesn't either.

[maggief]

http://www.wral.com/news/8820200/detail.html




Attorney: Accuser ID'd Lacrosse Players By Scratched On Their Bodies
Additional DNA Results Expected Tuesday

POSTED: 7:37 am EDT April 19, 2006
UPDATED: 1:43 pm EDT April 19, 2006

DURHAM, N.C. -- An exotic dancer who says three Duke lacrosse players raped her may have identified two of them based on photographs that show scratches on their bodies, a defense attorney for one of the men said Wednesday.



Attorney Bill Cotter said that when 46 members of the lacrosse team submitted court-ordered DNA samples last month, they were also photographed without their shirts.

Cotter said that it is his understanding of how Reade Seligmann, 20, and Collin Finnerty, 19, were identified by the alleged victim, who told police she was gang-raped, sodomized and beaten for 30 minutes at a lacrosse-team party on March 14.

(snip)

[investigateworld]

Totally correct.
Too often cops (unlike yours truly*) forget they have taken an oath to find truth and serve justice.

*Remind me to someday tell the story how I got 30 days on the bricks for writting a clemency letter reference a homicide case I worked. The management never heard of the Petition and Redress clause of the US Constitution. At that point I retired, they're hopeless.

[JeffAtlanta]

Didn't the cabbie say a $25 tip and fare? I though he meant total.

Not sure about the total but he did explicitly say "nice tip". Of course, that nice tip was probably 5 dollars.

This will be spun by the "every man is guilty" people by saying that the "huge extravagant tip" is a textbook example of a panicked person trying to set up a alibi and why would a person go to such lengths to set up an alibi if they weren't guilty.

There will be doubts raised about why "he suddenly needed to go to an ATM", "why would he take an expensive cab to a fast food restaurant", "why leave such a big tip", "why was he suddenly calling his girlfriend - obviously out of guilt and to establish a female alibi" - it will go on and on.

We know better, but juries aren't very smart. These people are just pathetic. If you don't have an alibi for the time of a crime then it's obvious you're guilty, but if you do have an alibi for that exact time then it's just a little to convenient.

[investigateworld]

Again, your correct.
However, some states can march you in front of a grand jury and give you limited immunity and order you to comply.

[bwteim]

bump

[Raycpa]

The time points before midnight as well as after are relevant if the accuser changes the story and there needs to be confirmation of the time stamp times on the photo's. Are the time stamps all from one camera, does the camera reset time when its off, is the hour correct for this time zone, etc.

[LK44-40]

I think it's extraordinarily unlikely that these guys tampered with the photos either before or after they were taken. These are college kids at a girlie party, not master criminals.

I have not looked into this, but I am sure that it is possible to manipulate these time-stamps. It probably is a feature readily available in PhotoShop or other software. The time-stamps are not part of the images and so could be altered without leaving tell-tale artifacts.

I do not know about these young men but there are undoubtedly hundreds of Duke students who could do this. Anybody could, if there is software with that provision.

I am not at all saying that the time-stamps are manipulated, only that I completely disagree that such manipulation is master criminality beyond the capability of Duke students.

The business about the wristwatch being visible is another matter. Images can be manipulated (as distinct from times-stamps, which are merely data associated with the images) but I would think that such manipulation (adding a wristwatch) would be detectable by an expert. In any case, it is not something readily done by someone with no experience.

I am very troubled by the vagueness of the information about the pictures. The WTVD story, #54, has very little context. Are these claimed to be the entire set of images??? Why only two of the main attraction but then these other images from later. There are endless possibilites, I suppose. But I'd love to know more. (Too bad the DA isn't more curious.) And I sure would like to have the images available online. WTVD ain't no Buckhead!

[GallopingGhost]

For all of you keeping score at home, here is the most complete timeline I have compiled from reported sources:

11:02:00 LAX party starts at Buchanan street house
11:15:00 Stripper #2 arrives at house (elapsed time 0:13:00)
11:45:00 - 12:00:00 AV arrives at house (0:30:00 - 0:45:00)
12:00:12 Photo of both strippers dancing (0:15:12)
12:00:40 Photo of both strippers dancing, bruises visible on AV (0:00:40)
12:01:16 Photo of AV kneeling over stripper #2 (0:00:46)
12:03:57 Photo of both strippers leaving room (0:02:41)
12:07:00 Seligman makes cell phone call (0:03:03)
12:09:00 Seligman makes another cell phone call (0:02:00)
12:11:00 Seligman makes another cell phone call (0:02:00)
12:14:00 Seligman makes cell phone call for cab (0:03:00)
12:19:00 Seligman enters cab 1.5 blocks from house (0:05:00)
12:24:00 Seligman uses Wachovia Bank ATM (0:05:00)
12:30:12 Photo of AV on back porch going through purse (0:06:12)
12:30:47 Photo of AV on back porch apparently smiling(0:00:35)
12:31:26 Photo of AV apparently stumbling on back porch stairs (0:00:39)
12:37:58 Photo of AV lying down on back porch (0:06:32)
12:41:00 Photo of AV in stripper #2's car (0:03:02)
12:42:00 Seligman uses key card to enter dorm (0:01:00)
12:53:00 Stripper #2 calls 911 about racial insults (0:11:00)
1:22:00 Kroger security calls 911 about AV in stripper #2's car
1:32:00 Durham Police arrive at Kroger (0:10:00)
1:49:00 DPD takes AV to mental health center (0:17:00)
2:31:00 DPD takes AV to Duke Hospital (0:42:00)
2:50:00 DPD changes incident report to include alledged rape (0:29:00)

[F.J. Mitchell]

The dancer will be a loser by then, but Nifong will have already won the election. Only impeachment will make him the loser.

[Steve_Seattle]

Based on his affidavits, the DA's timeline for the entire event - from the girl's arrival to departure - is approximately one hour - 11:30 to 12:30, with the alleged crime beginning at approximately midnight. But the photo evidence shows the stripper still dancing at 12:04, and Seligmann was gone by 12:19. So the DA is forced to say that Seligmann called a cab at exactly the same time he was raping the girl.

[JeffAtlanta]

The time points before midnight as well as after are relevant if the accuser changes the story and there needs to be confirmation of the time stamp times on the photo's. Are the time stamps all from one camera, does the camera reset time when its off, is the hour correct for this time zone, etc.

I'm pretty sure this was a cell phone camera and the time is sent via carrier signal.

[defenderSD]

Not suggesting anything, but in NC he may get more than impeachment.

[dubyawhoiluv]

nancy has been pissed since robert blake,micheal jackson and other cases that she knew was gonna be found guilty and didn't. I love it when her and that hideous bloom(daughter) shrill and equally shrill wendy murphy eat crow.

[Dante3]

For Duke's president to have canceled the whole lacrosse season, he might have had something personal against lacrosse or maybe athletes in general and this was his way to stick it to them. The president does not seem to have major mental problems, certainly no leadership qualities.