Why I Support President Bush and the ZOT!

[thousand dollar hamburger]

I think he has a sincere desire to help everyone. he has even gone out of his way to embrace people like Hillary Clinton and Ted Kennedy. He does not hold grudges as shown by his willingness to bend over backwards to allow terrorist supporting nations to operate our ports. We need this type of benevolent leader.

Our President is not a cheapskate, as he has opened up our budget to give to anyone who might need anything.

Aliens from all nations are welcomed into our great country without having to deal with mundane bureaucratic State approval. Cutting government red tape -- that's the Bush way!

Yes, our Prseident even realizes that occupying as many countries around the world as possible is the best way to spread American ideals.

We are truly lucky to have this great man. I suggest that at 10:00 AM EST, we all stand up in unison and shout -- HOORAY FOR BUSH!!!

[Das Outsider]

But then I realised that Faith is not antithetical to Truth, nor is it coincidental.

No, faith and truth are not necessarily mutually exclusive--you're right. But faith is only as good as its object, not in and of itself.

[Tax-chick]

You sound like TonyRo76 there. He's a long-time FRiend.

[Monkey Face]

Forsythia is one of my very favorite "flowers."

I didn't like Virgina...it had air you could drink and water you couldn't.

Virginia was pretty, though, and the kids liked all the Civil War historical sites, so that was pretty good, but I was glad to come back west.

[Irish_Thatcherite]

I don't think that about you at all! :)

[Das Outsider]

No, that's not what I meant. I believe that truth is absolute and can be known, by reason and revelation. However, the fact that a person believes something in error does not diminish that person *as a person*.

Ok, so we're saying essentially the same thing. As I warned earlier, I do use kinds of statements to draw out a person's beliefs if I perceive them to be stated in an unclear way.

He still has the capacity to know the truth, and to engage with the truth through faith, according to his personal conditions.

One thing: What are these personal conditions you're talking about? I want to better understand what you're getting at.

[Tax-chick]

I had dreadful allergies in Virginia, but then I had them in Texas, too. I think it had more to do with my personal chemistry than actual botanical conditions. I always got dreadful allergy attacks before accounting exams!

Virginia is great for Civil War, and so is Tennessee. I could visit with the Confederate dead on my porch in Manchester, TN :-). As soon as we get another kid out of diapers, we plan to make some historical trips. There are good Revolutionary War sites within a day of us, and we just haven't made them yet, with two babies in two years!

[Das Outsider]

You sound like TonyRo76 there. He's a long-time FRiend.

I've spoken with him on other threads a time or two. We are both traditional Lutherans.

[Dead Corpse]

Disclaimer: I am happily married. I'm only posting this because I think it's funny how cynical some people get about their marriages.

A Doctor was addressing a large audience in Tampa. "The material we put into our stomachs is enough to have killed most of us sitting here, years ago. Red meat is awful. Soft drinks corrode your stomach lining. Chinese food is loaded with MSG. High fat diets can be disastrous, and none of us realizes the long-term harm caused by the germs in our drinking water. But there is one thing that is the most dangerous of all and we all have, or will, eat it. Can anyone here tell me what food it is that causes the most grief and suffering for years after eating it?"

After several seconds of quiet, a 75-year-old man in the front row raised his hand, and softly said, "Wedding Cake."

[Monkey Face]

I like the early army/settler/pioneer/miner histories. I'm a big fan of ghost towns, as well, and try to drive to them when I have the money. They are really interesting.

Actually, I like history. All ages, all countries.

[Monkey Face]

LOL!

Yessiree! I agree 100%!

[Das Outsider]

I don't think that about you at all! :)

I was just being silly for the sake of silliness, I suppose. In America, mainline Protestants view most of the things I listed as being "Catholic." I say this to them: I am an evangelical catholic, but neither an Evangelical nor a Catholic.

[Dead Corpse]

Two hunters went moose hunting every winter without success. Finally, they came up with a foolproof plan. They got a very authentic female moose costume and learned the mating call of a female moose. The plan was to hide in the costume, lure the bull, then come out of the costume and shoot the bull.
They set themselves up on the edge of a clearing, donned their costume and began to give the moose love call. Before long, their call was answered as a bull came crashing out of the forest and into the clearing.
When the bull was close enough, the guy in front said, "Okay, let's get out and get him."
After a moment that seemed like an eternity, the guy in the back shouted, "The zipper is stuck! What are we going to do!?"
The guy in the front says, "Well, I'm going to start nibbling grass, but you'd better brace yourself.

[Lady Jag]

It never occurred to me to think of the animal's appearance as a strong factor in diet choice. Taste and texture would be higher on the list and certainly slaughter is something I try to avoid thinking about, but I like cows and pigs better than sheep and that's about the same order in which I like to eat them. I just hope I didn't eat the Einstein of pigs tonight.

[Irish_Thatcherite]

In America, mainline Protestants view most of the things I listed as being "Catholic."

I believe Luther's service was a lot like the Catholic Mass, am I right about that?

[Tax-chick]

I understand your technique, no problem. You're doing good! One can't have a discussion without its being clear what people mean.

By "personal conditions," I meant the religion they were brought up in, or the circumstances of their life, or anything that might affect the way they conceive their faith. For instance, some people have had very bad experiences with "Christianity": abusive parents, abusive pastors, "customs" taught in the place of Christian doctrine, etc.

Some people are not psychologically in a place to accept what you or I might want to offer, faith-wise. In that case, I think the way to go is simply to be a friend, without conditions.

We had a pastor once who said, "People should meet you in the grocery store, and think, 'I want the life he has!' People should see our congregation, and be beating down the door to our services, saying, 'I want to be a part of what they have!' If they're not, it's because we aren't 'in Christ' the way we should be."

Richard Wurmbrand, founder of Voice of the Martyrs (a Lutheran :-), said that Communists exists because Christians don't *live Christ* the way they should. If the Church (in the global sense) was what it should be, Communism would have no appeal.

I can continue this discussion, but I've got to shower and then feed Vlad again :-). Might not get back to it until tomorrow, depending on the boy's digestion!

[Tax-chick]

Me, too! Got that from my parents - we always travelled to any available historical sites, wherever we lived.

[NicknamedBob]

"What are these personal conditions you're talking about?"

I can tell you what my personal conditions are:

I am not comfortable with those who say they have a faith, and that they are unwilling to examine it. They accept this condition in what to me is a blindness.

Nor do I side with the unrelenting skeptics, who demand incontrovertible evidence for everything. If it cannot be proven, then it may as well not exist for them.

These are too often poles apart. I tread a middle ground, seeking to understand, not in revelation, but in enlightenment.

Some things seem certain, or obvious. Not provable, but somewhat deducible. I accept those things.

Some things seem antithetical to my appreciation and understanding of how things work. Even under pressure to accept them, I resist.

I don't need a ticket for anybody's crazy train. I'll work it out myself, with a slow and deliberate tread.

[Monkey Face]

LOL!

I'll remember that, I'm sure, the next time someone says, "Brace yourself!"

[Monkey Face]

It's that time, kids. I'm sorry to have to leave but my brain just quit again. I couldn't even remember who to post to...:o[

Have a good evening/night and I'll see you tomorrow. Chocolate dreams, everyone!

[tuliptree76]

Hi everyone. I made it back from my business trip in one piece. Looks like I missed the Mars experience. I hope you are all doing well.