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Need some advice buying a used car
Jan. 3, 2006 | Alouette

Posted on 01/03/2006 1:55:54 PM PST by Alouette

FReepers, as you may probably know, I was involved in a car crash that resulted in the demise of my beloved companion, a 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix SE.

Sadly, the insurance adjustor has determined that my most dearly loved mode of transportation cannot be repaired at a cost of less than its market value, wherefore they are offering a buyout so that I can purchase another vehicle. Insurance will not compensate unless they receive my TITLE, so seeking 2nd opinions from independent body shops is not an option.

Anyway, before entering the dangerous jungle of the used car market with all its traps and pitfalls, I am seeking the advice and recommendations of FReepers on where and how to find a replacement for my darling.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: alouette; automotive; help; usedcar
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To: joesbucks

I usually offer about 5%-8% over blackbook. They do usually pay some detailing costs, possibly towing and some labor to buy and move them. If they are selling a trade in, they generally have them at lower cost so 5% is more appropriate. If they purchased at an auction, then a little more is receommended. Note that if they do a complete "certified" inspection and repair on the veihicle, they may well be wanting more than the 8%. But they usually offer an extended warranty on "certified" used vehicles.

It is ok to ask them where they got the car. Also, always ask for a title history report (carfax) and a copy of the inpsection, repairs and detailing they did when they received it. It is sometimes telling. Finally, lood at all of the body panel and door hinge bolt heads. If there are marks or the bolts are scuffed, then you can bet that that part of the car has been removed and put back, usually to fix damage. Check the black carbon steel parts under the dash to look for extensive rust (possible flood damage). Look under the bottom of the car for tell tail signs of leaking oils and or fluids. Check the front of the engine block for extensive corrosion around the water pump. This could be a sign of a coolant leak. In older cars, especially with rack and pinion steering, you can compare the thread extensions at the tie rods to see what front end pieces have been replaced. If the threads on one side have about 4" showing and the other side has only 1" showing, there has been some work on the front end.

Good luck.

PS - When test driving a car, it is ok to put it through its paces. Accelerate hard a couple of times, brake hard a coupld of times, find a large parking lot and push some aggressive "s" turns. If you are buying 4-wheel drive truck, insist that they demostrate that the font drive train is in good working order. Oviously don't go crazy, burnouts and doughnuts are frowned upon.


81 posted on 01/05/2006 4:52:57 AM PST by Tenacious 1 (Not today.)
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To: BigTex5; Alouette; epow
Alouette,

Take the money they offer you, and insist on keeping the car.

Then shop for repairs. I would be very surprised if a decent body man couldn't repair that damage for under $2 Grand retail. You need a good auto-recycler and a creative welder.

What happens to cars like this, is that body shops buy the salvage title, repair the damage, using used parts, which is OK, and then sell the vehicle to low-end dealers.

Whole 'nuther world out there. Have fun, and hope you and the other driver OK.

82 posted on 01/05/2006 7:00:07 AM PST by Kenny Bunk (Democrat vote fraud must be stopped. Hello? RNC?)
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To: Kenny Bunk
Take the money they offer you, and insist on keeping the car.

Can't do it. They are demanding the title before sending the payout.

I'm looking at vehicles on autotrader.com. I think I can find a nice replacement.

Of course I am grieving for that Pontiac. Just like when people lose their pets. A good, reliable piece of Detroit Iron is a friend and a loved one.

83 posted on 01/05/2006 7:07:05 AM PST by Alouette (Neocon Zionist Media Operative)
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To: Alouette
They are demanding the title before sending the payout.

Sure sign that they have the car sold to a dealer or body shop. Demand back. Be mean. It looks horrible, but there's not a heck of a lot wrong with that car!

The lucky dealer already has some doors on order at the junkyard!

84 posted on 01/05/2006 7:10:32 AM PST by Kenny Bunk (Democrat vote fraud must be stopped. Hello? RNC?)
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To: trillabodilla

I thought Hub would NEVER buy anything but Cadillac or Town Car or LTD. He started looking for the best bang for his buck and we have a Toyota Avalon. CarMax is the best place to buy a used car, imho.


85 posted on 01/05/2006 7:13:27 AM PST by Dawgreg (Happiness is not having what you want, but wanting what you have.)
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To: Dawgreg

Carmax doesn't include my area.


86 posted on 01/05/2006 7:20:34 AM PST by Alouette (Neocon Zionist Media Operative)
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To: Tenacious 1
Thank you for the insight. It will be most helpful. My wife and I are embarking on restructuring how we spend money and buy our goods and services. One part of that is no more new cars but to buy 2 year old cars in excellent condition, letting someone else pay for the depreciation and any of the new car headaches associated with recalls or other annoying maint issues.

But no burnouts or donuts?

87 posted on 01/05/2006 7:39:17 AM PST by joesbucks
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To: Kenny Bunk
What happens to cars like this, is that body shops buy the salvage title, repair the damage, using used parts, which is OK, and then sell the vehicle to low-end dealers.

Exactly right.

Alouette, your car is very likely to be sold as salvage at an auto auction and rebuilt by a shop which specializes in supplying the used car trade. I have seen many cars sold at salvage auctions with worse damage than I can see in the photo.

There are 2 things I see about Kenny Bunk's advice that I think you should consider before deciding which way to go. First and most importantly, you will probably find somewhere in the fine print of your policy that the insurer retains salvage rights if the car is totaled out. I hope I'm wrong, and it might be worth a nominal cost to have an attorney examine your policy if you decide to go that route and the insurer balks.

Second, if you have the car repaired be as certain as possible that the rebuilder is both scrupulously honest and technically qualified to do the work properly. Ask to speak to some of his former customers and find out if they are satisfied with their repair job. If you have any doubts about the shop's honesty or capability keep looking.

Repairing major body damage to a modern unibody car requires a high degree of skill and experience to do the job right. For every car that is rebuilt satisfactorily after major body and/or unibody damage, I would estimate that there are another 2 or 3 that are not entirely satisfactory on some point and will never be quite the same as before. It may not be anything that you would notice or that would significantly affect it's serviceability. But when you go to trade it in, a new car dealership's appraiser is almost sure to see the telltale signs of a less than perfect major repair. And if he does, the dealership will use that as an arguing point for a lower than normal trade in offer. Just something to consider before you decide which way you want to go.

88 posted on 01/05/2006 9:04:46 AM PST by epow
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To: epow; Alouette
Repairing major body damage to a modern unibody car requires a high degree of skill and experience to do the job right.

On the money there. Modern cars are built up from welded box sections which are welded to other boxes. They are incredibly strong, and absorb damage that used to kill folks in the olden days, in their heavier box panel on frame cars. But, as epow says, the shop has to have the experience and the equipment to fix it right. Fortunately, nowadays, many do. Be careful and good luck.

89 posted on 01/05/2006 9:26:58 AM PST by Kenny Bunk (Democrat vote fraud must be stopped. Hello? RNC?)
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To: Alouette
[Take the money they offer you, and insist on keeping the car.
Can't do it. They are demanding the title before sending the payout.]

Check the laws in your state. I believe in Texas they have to payout the policy and let you do what you want with the car. It has already been certified as totaled so you will not be able to sell it to anyone legally without disclosing that (unless you disclose to someone who plans on taking it to Mexico to sell). The only case where I have heard that the insurance company insists on keeping the car is when they payout the value of the automobile in instead of the damage amount. In this case the vehicle may be worth $5,000 and the cost of repair may be $4,800 and they are offering you the full $5,000. If this is the case, then demand they only pay out the cost of repair and keep the car. Otherwise, check your policy. Statefarm does not do body work and they do not buy or sell customer cars. The only reason they would not want you to have the car is because they want some return on their money. Look also for this little known loophole; Demand that the value of the car is based on its worth to you and what you would have previously sold the car for if the money was right. In other words, regardless of what their blackbook value is, challenge the worth of the car that makes it a total loss. If it is not considered a total loss, then they will payout the damage estimate and let you keep it. It is likely a long shot, but them demanding that they keep the car does not seem right.

Or make them state that they are "buying" the wrecked car from you. Then tell them that you do not want to sell it to them. Then demand that they pay for the damages minus your deductible per the terms of the policy.

Let me know if it works. I have never tried it.
90 posted on 01/05/2006 10:16:38 AM PST by Tenacious 1 (Not today.)
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To: BureaucratusMaximus
Some Nissan's have some known quirky electrical problems

Not major problems, just a relatively small problem with some distributors on some models. The distributor on 93-97 Altimas is Nissan's weak spot because an oil seal on the shaft is prone to leak as it gets older. Leaking oil can sometimes seep into the electronics in the distributor head, and if they fail the engine suddenly shuts off as though you flipped a switch.

I had a seal fail on a '94 Altima at about 150K miles. I noticed the leak before it caused an ignition failure, and a local shop replaced the seal for less than $100. No big deal unless you don't notice the leak in time and the engine cuts off on the freeway at rush hour. Other than that one weak spot Nissan engines and trannys are virtually bullet proof in my experience.

One thing I like about most models of Nissan engines is that they use a timing chain instead of a Gilmer belt which has to be replaced at regular intervals, which isn't a cheap job. (A Honda dealer wants almost $2000 to replace the belt on my son's Odyssey) The chain is designed to last the lifetime of the engine, and a Nissan engine is good for a LOT of miles if maintained properly.

91 posted on 01/05/2006 10:17:04 AM PST by epow
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To: Tenacious 1
Demand that the value of the car is based on its worth to you and what you would have previously sold the car for if the money was right. In other words, regardless of what their blackbook value is, challenge the worth of the car that makes it a total loss.

Here in GA the courts have ruled fairly consistently that the insurer must pay the average private party sale price of a similar make and model vehicle rather than the wholesale book price as is the case in some other states. IOW, usually a price roughly midway between the wholesale value and a dealer's actual selling price. If the insured refuses an insurer's lowball offer he or she can go to court and usually get a reasonably fair replacement cost settlement.

The insurers know that, and a threat to take it to court often gets the insured a fair settlement without actually going there. My aunt recently had her Toyota totaled by a rear end collision. She refused to settle for the first offer from the other driver's insurer on my advice, and it ended up paying her what I consider to be at least $1000 more than her car was worth at a private sale.

92 posted on 01/05/2006 10:41:12 AM PST by epow
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To: GummyIII; Alouette

The Toyota Camry is indeed an excellent choice. My better half drives one. :)


93 posted on 01/05/2006 11:41:51 AM PST by EveningStar
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To: Kenny Bunk
After looking at autotrader.com some of the same make and model, year, and mileage, I think that I was offered a fair buyout and I should be able to buy a vehicle that is just as good or better.
94 posted on 01/05/2006 12:22:51 PM PST by Alouette (Neocon Zionist Media Operative)
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To: Rhiannon
Wrong, no insurance company is legally liable to buy a car. They only owe the actual cash value of the car. That is an objective valuation

If you re-read my post, you will see that I was trying to draw the distiction between whether this was an insurance settlement proposed by the insurance company of someone else, who was responsible for the accident, or was it her insurance company. If the former, she can get anytbing the traffic will bear if it was the other persons fault. She could get all sorts of related costs and inconvienience in a claim, and if they didn't want to settle for that tell them, "buy this car with this particular stock number on this car lot."

Certainly, if it is her carrier, the cash value, which the carrier is liable for under the terms of the policy, and the replacement cost (with related loan balance) aren't always near close enough for most people to come out well. But you don't have to be confined to those limits if someone else was at fault.

95 posted on 01/05/2006 2:17:38 PM PST by KC Burke (Men of intemperate minds can never be free....)
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To: EveningStar

Hi, ES!! I'm looking at "new" Camry's right now, but am not in any hurry to buy one. If I find a deal, though, I probably will. New, to me, means under 50,000 miles...lol!


96 posted on 01/05/2006 2:33:26 PM PST by GummyIII
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To: Tenacious 1

If the insurance co has offered the ACV ( actual cash value ) the that is for the entire car. If the owner decides to buy back then he is buying at the salvage value. That value can be determined by salvage bids. The carrier only owes the ACV not what the subjective emotional value of the car. This can be objectively obtained. Insurance companies rarely make any money off the salvage it is just to dispose of the car. The main reason for the title is to prove the ownership of the car. Also to prevent a paper car being fraudently used in another accident or theft claim. The reason is that the states mandate anti fraud procedures since fraud probably is responsible for 30 % of current premiums. When a car is deemed a total loss the insurance co pays the value of the car not the repair cost. Lots of people want to repair the car instead. They get in trouble unless they own a body shop and put out thousnads above the settlement. There is a reason the insurance co.totals car , it is because it is not worth to repair. That car is easily a total loss.


97 posted on 01/05/2006 5:37:56 PM PST by Rhiannon
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To: Kenny Bunk

Nonsense !!

Do you pay someone money for a car and not get the title? Insurance companies don't buy the car either without getting a clear title. If the car is a total loss, the insurance company buys the car effectively.


98 posted on 01/05/2006 5:41:11 PM PST by Rhiannon
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To: Kenny Bunk

Been a while since you have had a car repaired. The parts alone are over 2k. Unless you are in the business of repairng cars don't give spurious advice about how much it will cost.You will be surprised.


99 posted on 01/05/2006 5:44:25 PM PST by Rhiannon
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To: Alouette

Glad you found a possible replacement car. Insurance companies usually pay the top dollar for a totalled car so the claim gets closed fast.


100 posted on 01/05/2006 5:48:56 PM PST by Rhiannon
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