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Updates, Thoughts and a Timeline: David Ludwig and Kara Beth Borden, November 29, 2005
All Info About ^ | November 29, 2005 | Bill Bickel

Posted on 11/29/2005 3:05:46 PM PST by Gondring

Updates, Thoughts and a Timeline: David Ludwig and Kara Beth Borden, November 29, 2005

by Bill Bickel

"Sources close to the case" say that the prosecution isn't inclined to ask for the death penalty because of Ludwig's age and the lack of any prior offenses. Personally, I'd think that when you're considering a premeditated cold-blooded double murder, "prior offenses" is fairly irrelevant; after all, what previous offenses would even remotely approach the seriousness of the current charges?


Yesterday, a Lancaster County (PA) judge, in response to a request made by Assistant District Attorney Christopher Hackman, ordered that four web sites owned by Kara Beth Borden be preserved -- one of which contains an online discussion apparently between Kara Beth and a friend, who disapproves of Kara Beth's sexual relationship with Ludwig and writes "obviously you tow dont care nuff that David may go to jail [sic]," referring to the possibility of statutory rape charges.

There are also reports that Kara Beth, or somebody using her password, has already deleted portions of these sites.


The media seems to be going out of its way to avoid the issue -- and indeed we feel more comfortable, especially post-Elizabeth Smart, to think of pretty, blonde 14-year-old girls as victims -- but the version of the story we're being told, in which Kara Beth Borden didn't ask her 18-year-old boyfriend David Ludwig to kill her parents, took no part in the planning, and had no idea he was going to do it, just doesn't add up. Of course, more details might emerge that will make her story more credible, but for now... It doesn't.

Friends and neighbors say they know Kara Beth, and there's no way she could have had a part in something like this; but then, nobody thought David Ludwig was a double homicide waiting to happen, either (not even, supposedly, Kara Beth).

Laci Peterson's family said it was impossible that Scott could have anything to do with Laci's disappearance (until they found out about Amber Frey, which still seems to me an insufficient reason to jump from "He's not involved" to "He killed our daughter"), and Lori Hacking's family discounted the possibility (at first) that Mark Hacking had anything to do with Lori's disappearance. In hindsight, of course, both Laci and Lori's families are able to recount any number of acts of suspicious and ominous behavior.

Still, for a 14-year-old girl, from what was apparently a stable, Christian family, to be in any way complicit in her parents' murder seems hard to believe. But consider what we're being asked to believe instead: Her boyfriend shot down her parents in cold blood, to her complete surprise, and her reaction was to run after his car to ride away with him, leaving her 13-year-old sister and 9-year-old brother behind with the bodies of their parents. I find that harder to accept and, if anything, even more cold-blooded.

Here's a thought: When Ludwig was arrested November 24, he told police he acted alone, and Kara Beth told them she hadn't been kidnapped. Neither statement was made public for another week, and in fact investigators made a point of repeating that they didn't know whether Kara Beth had been abducted or had gone with Ludwig willingly. It could be that they suspected one or both of the statements might be self-serving: his, to exonerate her; hers, to spare him from a kidnapping charge that could be the difference between the prosecution asking for the death penalty or not.


This timeline was updated November 29. Several details have become less rather than more clear, because of contradictory "facts" being made public


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: borden; davidludwig; deathpenalty; karabethborden; karaborden; ludwig
Some interesting points herein that I haven't seen elsewhere.
1 posted on 11/29/2005 3:05:48 PM PST by Gondring
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To: Dr. Scarpetta; wouldntbprudent; CindyDawg; gondramB; MizSterious; blu; fabriclady; Doc Savage; ...

ping


2 posted on 11/29/2005 3:06:11 PM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: Gondring

"Laci Peterson's family said it was impossible that Scott could have anything to do with Laci's disappearance (until they found out about Amber Frey, which still seems to me an insufficient reason to jump from "He's not involved" to "He killed our daughter"

I always thought that was a quick leap too. However, not quite so big a leap as Scott killing Laci because he'd gotten involved with Amber Frey.

This case is crazy too. Here are my questions: why was this kid permitted to have an arsenal of weapons? who the heck has 2 laptops? how did he come to have 10 grand in cash, ever? why have we heard nothing from/about his parents? All this skateboarding and weaponry and staying out late and fooling around with girls, it don't sound too Christian to me, and that's before the murders, obviously.


3 posted on 11/29/2005 3:20:07 PM PST by jocon307
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To: Gondring

One of the Court TV commentators keeps saying that "unless" she helped him with the planning or the murders or the escape, she would not be guilty of anything. Stunning, isn't it, that they could say that? Of course she helped him get away! She doubtless stepped over her bleeding, dying parents to run after him, and probably did whatever she could to help him escape.

That said, I also think she might have been in on the murder planning.


4 posted on 11/29/2005 3:23:24 PM PST by MizSterious (Anonymous sources often means "the voices in my head told me.")
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To: Gondring

Why bother asking for the death penalty in PA when an 18 yr. old is more likely to die of old age than be executed?


5 posted on 11/29/2005 4:05:27 PM PST by penowa
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To: jocon307; jan in Colorado
This case is crazy too. Here are my questions: why was this kid permitted to have an arsenal of weapons?

First of all...you use the term "kid"...but this was a man. He was legal to vote, etc. So when you ask "why was he permitted," the answer is, "because this is America."

Besides, the term "arsenal" is a loaded one (no pun intended). Many of the weapons seized were his family's, I'm sure, and I urge you to beware falling into the MSM's trap. Quite likely, there were hunting rifles, pistols, etc.

who the heck has 2 laptops?

Many people. If you look at his blog, you'd see that he worked at Circuit City and got discounted ones, and had perhaps intended to return one.

how did he come to have 10 grand in cash, ever?

Having a job and not having to pay rent is one helpful way to get cash. Secondly, a rumored report was that it wasn't all his own cash.

why have we heard nothing from/about his parents?

What would you expect them to say?

All this skateboarding and weaponry and staying out late and fooling around with girls, it don't sound too Christian to me, and that's before the murders, obviously.

Well, a friend of his said that he hadn't been "right with the Lord" lately, and questioned whether he was truly Christian or just used that to get the girls. But as for having weapons...

Then said [Jesus] unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.--Luke 22:36 (KJV)
(Of course, in Luke 22:38..."And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough." :-)
6 posted on 11/29/2005 5:08:18 PM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: penowa

Because we might someday get a real governor?


7 posted on 11/29/2005 5:08:59 PM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: jocon307
I never allowed my children to sleep over at anyone's home without comfirming first with the parents that an adult would be present.

Evidently this girl's mother and father allowed her to have a 'sleepover' despite the trouble they'd had with her previous behaviour.

None of this story makes sense.

We are not our children's 'friends' we are their protectors, often against their own wishes and demands.

8 posted on 11/29/2005 5:16:41 PM PST by OldFriend (The Dems enABLEd DANGER and 3,000 Americans died.)
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To: Gondring

Thanks for giving us an update.

I feel so sorry for the young ones who now have no mom or dad (and had to see such horror take place).


9 posted on 11/29/2005 6:40:56 PM PST by Cedar
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To: Gondring

LOL, I liked your last parenthetical comment.

I'm not sure this 18 year old can really be considered "a man" if he was still living under his parents' roof. And I had a time in my life when I had a job, but no bills, it would still have been quite a challenge for me to come up with 10 large, and if it wasn't all his money, who's was it, and why did he have it.

Fine, maybe his family has an arsenal (a loaded word, but perfectly accurate, say a sh*t load if you prefer) but still, why is the son running around armed to the teeth? We see how it turned out, no? In order to shoot men in the back and "mom in the chair", evidently, manifestly.

I'd expect his parents to be referenced, even if they don't make a comment.


10 posted on 11/29/2005 7:32:47 PM PST by jocon307
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To: jocon307
LOL, I liked your last parenthetical comment.

:-)

why is the son running around armed to the teeth?

Because he didn't care about violating the laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

But does it really matter whether he had one or one-hundred guns? And when you think of what guns many families have in rural Pennsylvania, I don't think this was out of line. Consider a .22 for small game and plinking; a goose gun; a deer rifle; a few handguns for carry, concealed carry, and target; plus miscellaneous...and you have many per person. I bet there are many FReepers with more guns than this whole family. I don't see many cases like this one from fols with "arsenals"..and it seems that there are as many from people without "arsenals"...so I don't think having an "arsenal" causes it.

I believe the parents have been referenced elsewhere, but recall, the suspect is 18, not a minor.

11 posted on 11/30/2005 5:05:19 AM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: Cedar
Thanks for giving us an update.

You're welcome.

I feel so sorry for the young ones who now have no mom or dad (and had to see such horror take place).

Me too. They have seen evil firsthand, and can't find comfort with their parents.

I'm wondering what Miss Borden told Mr. Ludwig about her parents. Was it typical teenage rebellion against them and seeing them as deserving to die? Did she give allegations of abuse? I do hope we hear updates of this, to find out her involvement and what it might have taken to send this young man into his admitted killings.

12 posted on 11/30/2005 5:32:14 AM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: OldFriend

I wouldn't be too hard on the parents; they sound like good ones. But as careful as I was, I wasn't perfect. Even the best parents can't prevent sneaky kids from getting away with things they shouldn't.


13 posted on 11/30/2005 6:21:14 AM PST by twigs
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To: Gondring

"what it might have taken to send this young man into his admitted killings."

I've noticed with almost all of the young murderers that they are pretty heavy into drugs...also either occult involvement (the family usually unaware) and/or extremely violent video games.

The media always tries to play down any occultic involvement by criminals. So lots of parents don't realize the combination of drugs and the occult can cause people (even children) to do terribly violent acts which normally they would never commit.


14 posted on 11/30/2005 12:00:29 PM PST by Cedar
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To: Gondring; Cedar

This case is so strange. Ludwig and Kara are so cold-blooded. Has anyone heard where Kara and her brothers and sisters are staying now?


15 posted on 12/01/2005 7:20:17 AM PST by Dr. Scarpetta
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To: Gondring

Wow, they only just met in May? That means that, in a mere 7 months, she met him, became sexually involved with him, and decided he was the one for her after he murdered her parents (who cared for her for 14 years). Just seven months and one 18yo sociopath, and she completely brushed off her parents' 14 years of love and care for her...


16 posted on 12/02/2005 10:21:52 AM PST by Tired of Taxes
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