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What should be done about education?

Posted on 05/11/2005 2:41:17 PM PDT by slightlyovertaxed

I am new, though I've been lurking a few months unregistered to get a feel for the forums, so if I'm in the wrong place, please direct me otherwise.

It's the time of year when all the testing happens and the reports about good vs. failing schools come out. I saw the Newsweek article on the FL ranking, the recent discussions about Utah's decision not to follow NCLB rules, the comments by Microsoft that there aren't enough Americans in science to choose from, etc. It's pretty clear that the education system is a mess on almost every front.

My question is, what is the best solution: If vouchers, will that help the number of religious schools that need to close because of declining enrollment (I'm thinking specifically of MA here, but I am guessing this is a nation-wide problem?) What about overcrowding in magnet schools?

If home-schooling, what's the best way to do this throughout the country? Should there be norms, thus defeating the purpose?

If public education...well, it's obviously not working, but is there any way to make it work? A socialist approach is hardly fair or rational. There's the issue of low motivation, low expectation in failing urban schools, coupled with teacher burnout and poor teacher training. There's the feel-good curriculum that neglects the basics...I read an awesome article on the newest version of math that talks about it, but I can't remember where or I'd post it.

Does every child have the "right" to an education. Constitutionally, I'm pretty certain the answer is no. Pragmatically, what do you think? Would an increase in vocational education be the solution to some of these issues?

I honestly am torn and, as someone who is looking into education as a field, I'm really and truly frightened of the world I may enter. Thanks in advance for your input!


TOPICS: Education; Society
KEYWORDS: education; newbie
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1 posted on 05/11/2005 2:41:17 PM PDT by slightlyovertaxed
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To: slightlyovertaxed
Does every child have the "right" to an education.

Rights are the freedoms to act without government interference.

There is no such thing as a "right" which enslaves another person.

2 posted on 05/11/2005 2:43:51 PM PDT by AdamSelene235 (Truth has become so rare and precious she is always attended to by a bodyguard of lies.)
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To: slightlyovertaxed

Go private. They have to issue vouchers that make the kids "worth" the same amount to every school in the area. This is because the property taxes are so irregular. Once the system gets going they need to slowly do away with the vouchers, end property taxes, and have everyone pay for their own kids to go to school. As it is an 80 year old can have their home paid off for 30 years and still have that same home confiscated for not sending money to the pathetic public schools.


3 posted on 05/11/2005 2:48:41 PM PDT by Jaysun (No matter how hot she is, some man, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t)
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To: AdamSelene235
Rights are the freedoms to act without government interference. There is no such thing as a "right" which enslaves another person.

The word is used quite a bit these days: right to health care, right to a job, right to high speed internet (no kidding)....
4 posted on 05/11/2005 2:50:55 PM PDT by Jaysun (No matter how hot she is, some man, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t)
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To: slightlyovertaxed

1. de-unionize all public education.

2. fire 90% of administrators and 100% of consultants. fire ineffective teachers.

3. turn education over to the teachers and parents. require parental involvement. fine parents who are abusive or not involved. hand out dvd's for parents that provide educational guidelines for their children and what's expected of parents.

4. get sex education out of schools. make sex education available on dvd's for the kids to take home.

5. return education to the basics that were taught successfully when sat scores peaked in 1963. economics and business courses should be required of all students.

6. get anti-american texts out of schools.


5 posted on 05/11/2005 3:00:18 PM PDT by ken21 (if you didn't see it on tv, then it didn't happen. /s)
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To: slightlyovertaxed

Are you looking to teach as a profession? Or are you sending your child into the school system?


6 posted on 05/11/2005 3:02:09 PM PDT by Ron in Acreage (Democrat or Communist? Is there a difference?)
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To: slightlyovertaxed

Very excellent first post and well worth a thorough discussion.

Because public education is "free" it is treated as having no value.

Parents should have to pay an "education tax" for each child. Then they would pay more attention to what their children are being taught in the public schools.

Parents have abrogated their parental rights to the public schools, their judgement to the welfare state and their values to the pop, rap culture.

Time to tax CD's, video games and movies to publicly fund college education and time for parents to realize that the most important investments in their own futures are their sons and daughters.

sp


7 posted on 05/11/2005 3:04:49 PM PDT by sodpoodle (The Ivory Billed Woodpecker discovered Arkansas - when HRC moved to NY)
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To: slightlyovertaxed

Gates: Get U.S. schools in order
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1396969/posts


8 posted on 05/11/2005 3:08:58 PM PDT by Libertarianize the GOP (Make all taxes truly voluntary)
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To: slightlyovertaxed
"Does every child have the "right" to an education. Constitutionally, I'm pretty certain the answer is no. Pragmatically, what do you think? Would an increase in vocational education be the solution to some of these issues? "

I think every child should have the freedom not to participate in public education. "The basic test of freedom is perhaps less in what we are free to do than in what we are free not to do. It is the freedom to refrain, withdraw and abstain which makes a totalitarian regime impossible."
9 posted on 05/11/2005 3:10:12 PM PDT by RunningJoke
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To: slightlyovertaxed

Home school.


10 posted on 05/11/2005 3:27:55 PM PDT by NEBUCHADNEZZAR1961
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To: slightlyovertaxed

This is the article that I intended to link.

A lesson for the education system (Gates donates $52 million to school without classrooms or exams)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1377026/posts


11 posted on 05/11/2005 4:09:15 PM PDT by Libertarianize the GOP (Make all taxes truly voluntary)
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To: slightlyovertaxed; LS

This is a great topic. Does anyone have the school ping list. I would bet there are lots of good ideas to be found there. I will add my two cents: Use a meaningful grading system, get rid of non-core course work, bring back music and the arts (chorus, band, orchestra, theater are really fun and worthwhile). Just a few thoughts. LS, anything to add?


12 posted on 05/11/2005 4:59:49 PM PDT by Bahbah (Something wicked this way comes)
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To: Bahbah
I'll only speak to univerity and college education. There are a couple of VERY quick reforms that any university could make that would greatly improve the quality/production of the teachers they now have:

1) Make EVERY administrator teach at least one class per semester.

2) Make EVERY administrator at the dean/provost level subject to a publication rule of 1 article every two years. They could be exempted if they demonstrate clear progress on a book within four years. No administrator may continue in his or her job without that regular publication, and would be forced to a sabbatical until "course work" was complete.

These are not designed to "punish" administrators, but to a) remind them what their "subjects" have to put up with; and b) link their actions as administrators (i.e., additional paperwork, more meetings) to what the faculty has to put up with. A busy administrator has less time to impose new rules, guidelines, programs, etc. on the proles.

3) Cut ALL administrative positions by 30%; all "student development" budgets by 50%.

4) Dedicate 33% of all university spending for faculty, rather than 7%; limit construction projects to no more than 33% of budget.

And, my favorite: all faculty should have to conduct a class with only blackboard and chalk at least once a semester. No powerpoint, no movies, no computer simulations. Just the prof and his/her brain.

13 posted on 05/11/2005 5:08:22 PM PDT by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of news)
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To: LS

Ah, I knew you would not disappoint :)


14 posted on 05/11/2005 5:14:32 PM PDT by Bahbah (Something wicked this way comes)
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To: RunningJoke; Libertarianize the GOP

Really interesting article about the Gates-funded school that you linked. I read about a similar approach used in the UK about...30? years ago. It is one way to do it, definitely.

Running, you bring up a good point about freedom. I know a lot of people who would have been better served by leaving HS to go do something worthwhile with their time. But what about basic skills, such as reading and simple math? Even in today's "I do what the TV tells me!" era of information, I think reading is fundamental to participating as a full citizen. At what age should the choice be offered to the child, or are you speaking of the parents' right to pull the kid out of public school and initiate homeschool/votech/private without complaint? I think I'm misreading you or I'm being too literal.

(And to answer a question, I'm debating going out into the world to teach and also worrying about what my young family members are going through.)


15 posted on 05/11/2005 5:15:00 PM PDT by slightlyovertaxed
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To: slightlyovertaxed
Good thread, welcome aboard!

I have two kids in public schools. Both of them are performing well above their peers. My seven year old, in second grade, is currently reading and spelling/"vocabbing" at a seventh-grade level.

Public schools are supplemental to what my husband and I teach our kids at home. Sadly, most kids aren't so fortunate. Fixing public education will only help so much.

16 posted on 05/11/2005 5:17:01 PM PDT by grellis (STILL the Queen of the Dorks)
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To: slightlyovertaxed

People told me "don't go into education if you're in it for the money," but that's not true. You can be a good teacher and make money. Now, true, I did have to go to the university level; and I have written a lot professionally. So if you want to be a junior high teacher, then I guess it's true that you can't be in it for the money. Then again, remember you're only working 9 months of the year.


17 posted on 05/11/2005 5:20:25 PM PDT by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of news)
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To: slightlyovertaxed

Get rid of the Dept. of Education and the teachers' unions.


18 posted on 05/11/2005 5:21:47 PM PDT by Vicki (Re-Vote or Revolt in Washington State. Send the Feds)
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To: slightlyovertaxed

As a good citizen you probably know the answers to the following:

How long do you think compulsory school systems have existed in this country?

Why were compulsory school systems created?

What did people do before compulsory school systems?

What was the literacy rates before and after compulsory school systems? Why did the literacy rates drop after the implememtation of compulsory school systems?

Is education the primary focus of school systems?

Why do you single out TV as the problem?

Why do you need a school system to teach reading and arithmetic?

Why do you think the choice is the childs? Were you raised in a family?

"The simple exercise of thought is becoming more difficult every day,for the centralized organization of the world in which we are beginning to live forces us to think as a mass. Thanks to the enormous development of this new world's propaganda, freedom of thought finds itself in a situation comparable to that of the most humble of artisans confronted with heavy industry. The time may come, if we are not careful, when the attempt of a man to think will seem no less absurd than the delusion of a brave mechanic bent on making automobiles by hand with the intention of competing with Mr. Ford. And for the same reason. For free thought already costs a lot, and in certain countries it is even beyond price, it costs one's life."


19 posted on 05/11/2005 6:16:58 PM PDT by RunningJoke
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To: slightlyovertaxed

Bring back the paddle.


20 posted on 05/11/2005 9:46:00 PM PDT by Cedar
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