question- Whatever became of Terri Schiavo's autopsy?

"The question remains whether a spouse should be allowed to pull the plug, based on the claim that his spouse said to do so."

The way I remember it, her spouse claimed that Terri's wish was not to be kept alive by artificial means ... i.e. a feeding tube.

What boggles my mind is why, after the tube was out, wasn't she allowed to be given liquids and nutrition by mouth? Doctors said that this was possible, and that the reason she was on the tube was because it was far less cumbersome.

She never objected to being hand fed.

"The question remains whether a spouse should be allowed to pull the plug, based on the claim that his spouse said to do so.
The way I remember it, her spouse claimed that Terri's wish was not to be kept alive by artificial means ... i.e. a feeding tube.

What boggles my mind is why, after the tube was out, wasn't she allowed to be given liquids and nutrition by mouth? Doctors said that this was possible, and that the reason she was on the tube was because it was far less cumbersome."

Another question would be, WHY was Terri on a feeding tube IN THE FIRST PLACE???? If she said, "no tubes for me"...

"""Another question would be, WHY was Terri on a feeding tube IN THE FIRST PLACE???? If she said, "no tubes for me"..."""

It appears that he only remembered that conversation with Terri AFTER he had the settlement in his hot little hands & she was of no further use to him. A bit of a drain on the cash actually.

Had they killed her when he first asked them to kill her, he could have been a millionaire instead of a shmuck with a measily 360k, his part of the settlement.

Forensic Pathologist Dr. Michael Badin said it takes about 6 weeks soaking in formaldehyde before a brain 'stiffens' up enough to allow it to be microscopically analyzed. So don't expect the ~~autopsy~~ whitewash before mid-may.

And you can ABSOLUTELY sure it will be just that, a whitewash. Pinnelas county is geriatric murder capitol of the world. This M.E. was hired by the corrupt county commissioners of which judge Greer came from. They would no more hire an 'honest' M.E. that would Bill Clinton.

Badin also said it would have been HIGHLY advisable to allow other independant pathologists to oversee that autopsy. That tends to end all griping after the fact.

Terri bump.

You don't sound like much of a conservative to me. Most conservatives would not approve of starving an innocent individual to death. It appears that you do not know too much about the history of Michael Schiavo's treatment of his wife and her family. I, too, have been faced with a similar decision as a guardian to a family member. Killing her never crossed my mind.

My dad passed away a year and a half ago after losing his battle with cancer. Because of the radiation he had to go through he had a feeding tube because it burned his throat so bad that he was unable to swallow. Never once during the time he had his feeding tube did I ever consider pulling it out and letting him starve to death. That would have been inhumane and cruel, but apparently Michael Schaivo doesn't see it that way.

The coroner announced last week that it will be another three to four weeks before all the autopsy results are in and the report is available. He stated that with such an important case, he wants to make sure every possible test is done and everything is beyond reproach, so he's taking his time and getting it right.

Well Master Sergeant let's hope you never find your own daughter in this position. I am not only a conservative, but a mother, and a wife, and even though you write very eloquently, I have to disagree with you on all points. Michael Schiavo had a definite "conflict of interest" in this decision due to the fact that he has a live-in girlfriend (for years now, and children) and by Florida law, it's illegal to live openingly with another person while married to someone. That alone should have removed him as this woman's legal guardian. She couldn't divorce him, and her family couldn't do it for her. So terrified of being denied the right to even so much as visit with her by this monster, they have lived their lives for years in a state of fear, heatache and emotional shipwreck. There are expense records that show that most of the settlement money went to lawyers for Michael Schiavo to try and have his wife killed. There's the original statement to the court when Michael was fighting for the settlement money, that he wanted sooo much, to be able to take care of Terri and give her whatever therapy she would need, "for the rest of her life". That therapy ended as soon as the ink dried on the check, and a "do not ressucitate" order was placed on her medical file. It's all a documentated fact, the paper trail says it all. The emotional issues are just common sense, human love and decency. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out why it's wrong to mistreat your helpless wife who is in a totally dependant positon by denying her proper therapy, locking her away from the entire world, and proceeding to hire lawyer after lawyer to find a way to have her put to death. The man's a monster, the bit about dying in his arms with the rose was staged, her obituary came out in the paper, I can find out which one but have forgot the name, ahead of her death. The autopsy which he so "graciously" consented to, was required by law, and he could not avoid it. He still hasn't even bothered to tell her parents where her ashes are buried, even though he was ordered to by the courts. And furthermore, with all due respect, pulling the tube was fine with me, as long as she was given the chance to survive without it, which she NEVER was granted,instead armed police police were dragging 11 year old boys away in handcuffs, to keep them from trying to give her a cup of water. Why? simply because she COULD have swallowed water and liquid food and lived on, and that wasn't the objective here, the objective was to KILL her, which he and the courts most certainly did. How do I know she could swallow Sergeant? Because if a person cannot swallow their own saliva, they will exhibit excessuve drooling, and eventually, in a short time of a couple of weeks, they will develop a pheumonia like illness due to saliva dripping into their lungs that will most certainly kill them. Terri did not drool, and many aides did try from time to time to drive home the point that all these years, she could have ate successfully with a little therapy. But your hero made sure she never had the chance. If you ever have children, as I do, and one married daughter, you had better hope they don't hook up with a monster like Michael Schiavo, because if one of your daughters does, you may have the pleasure of setting beside your baby's bed, remembering how delighted you were when she took her first few bites of baby food for you...the faces she made, how she feel peacefully to sleep after the feeding in your arms, and then look at her there, slowly dehydrating to death, while you stand by helpless watching her suffer and die. And even if the chance is so small that she understands what is happening to her, it would eat your mind the rest of your life that she needed your help, and you let her down. Wondering what she may have thought in her damaged mind..as when she was a baby, "why don't they help me?". Yes, this is all emotion, but we humans are largely emotional beings and that is what seperates us from animals. So now that the precedent has been set, my advise to all is be careful who you and especially your children, marry, it's obvious that your rights as a parent mean absolutely nothing in the state of Florida, and certainly more states will follow. The whole world could see how wrong this was, and what Michael's motivations were from the beginning, but he had the magic piece of paper which completely took away any right whatsoever you had to defend your own child. Judge Greer? A senile old man who just wouldn't admit he was wrong, like so many old men, I believe he is no longer fit to be a judge. Nature degrades our senses as we age, we all see it in our fathers and mothers, judges are just people. They start losing their facilities just like we ordinary people do...and this judge certainly is doing that. He's no different than my 92 year old father, who though a great man in his day, now is a tempermental, shortsighted man who can't admit he's wrong, and does really irrational things for no reason. Judge Greer needs to be mentally evaluated. Too late though, he's already sentenced a helpless woman to death, and blood is on his hands.

You used too many words to express how shallow you are regarding someone else's life. Terri had a right to live. She was happy, she smiled ("reflex's", please!). Who are YOU to decide what her value is? If you're so slap-happy over being productive to society produce anything you have done to bring joy to this world? Terri brought her parents, those that LOVE her, happiness. And to watch this woman DIE in these United States, what a sick crime! She was alert and knew what was happening hours before her life was finally ended through murder.
MURDER!
Do you even know ANYTHING about this case? I'd say not! Look at "Hemlock Society" and see which attorney, neurologist, lawyer and husband are members of this "kill 'em" society.

Maybe its your military training that caused you to lose track of what life is really about.

God help us all from narrow-minded liberals like you. No, you are not conservative, not at all.

Hey Sarg,
I have to disagree as well. The facts play out like O.J.'s case. They never found the knife, but we all know he did it. At first Michael was getting rid of her for the money, etc., but then when it got sticky (immediately), then his fight turned towards NOT GETTING BUSTED, which is why he didn't (couldn't) get her taken out right away (he tried, but it didn't completely work).
Have you seen the CAT's, MRI's, EEG's?... Last I heard was that in the settlement deal (with the original Doctor that treated her), that Michael wouldn't go for the Doctor's license if he (with the court) agreed to seal the records (MRI's, etc..), which Michael could have done because he was her husband under the privacy act. He and his Lawyer, etc., can say all day and night all sorts of crap, BUT WHERE'S THE PROOF?
So unless you have seen the scans, or know if the scans have been made public, or know of a report stating that the Schindler's have been able to have their own physician see the scans, therefore proving that no attack happened..., we can't rule out that an attack never happen, right? I think we all know the answer- for if it was proven way back in the beginning (that no attack happened), then there wouldn't be any talk of an attack, "right?"

Fact 1: Michael only let Terri get rehabilitation UNTIL she started showing signs of recovery, AND THEN he ordered the rehab to be stopped.

Fact 2: Michael NEVER made ANY mention of Terri wanting to be taken OFF of life support UNTIL "AFTER" he was out of that settlement money. For whatever reason it wasn't UNTIL AFTER that money was gone that "all of a sudden" Terri didn't want to live on support, etc...
Also, he had to wait for awhile to say anything about it so it didn't look like he was trying to "off her" to get rid of the evidence (for as long as she was alive, she could come back and state what happened), which is what he did- he waited until the dust settled, got some money, spent it, then when things were calm again (for when he was first trying to take the tube out it was all quiet again- it was him trying to take the tube out that got everything loud again), THEN he tried to "quietly" get rid of her, and even though everything got loud again, it worked and "he got away with it," right?

Fact 3: The physicians that stated that Terri was in a PVS state were easily proven to be trying to "clear the way" for their colleague (the first Doctor sued by Michael) so that further lawsuits could not be filed against him- therefore making her dead before she was dead, therefore closing the case for their colleague for good (in fear of a lawsuit being filed by Terri herself, or her family...).
These Doctors WOULD NOT allow any rehab to be conducted EVEN THOUGH countless other DECORATED physicians were begging to work on Terri, EVEN FOR FREE!!!! These Doctor's were HANDPICKED to order the death of Terri, AND MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, "this" WAS nothing more than a set up for a far greater event in the future. This was just the FIRST STEP of something far more heinous! Something else down the road, something far worse later- just watch.
It may take another decade for it to come up, but JUST WATCH, AND REMEMBER. Who knows what it is, BUT WE LET THEM GET STARTED, so know we will have a harder time stopping them the next time when that next chapter does come up. (just fact)

Fact 4: Michael MADE SURE no one asked Terri if she wanted to live or not and and allowed ANYONE to get an answer. All they had to do was to ask if Terri wanted to live or not, and to say the word "LIFE" if she did want to, or to say the word "DEATH" if she wanted to die, and Michael made sure of that, AT ALL COSTS! They could have tested it in every way, but Michael DID ALL HE COULD to MAKE SURE that it didn't happen.- In fact, when Terri's grandmother tried asking Terri to say "I want to live" or "I want to die", AS SOON as Terri started to answer MICHAEL HAD THE SCHINDLER FAMILY THROWN OUT OF THE ROOM, and "WOULD NOT" let them back in UNLESS THEY SIGNED A LEGAL DOCUMENT STATING THEY "WOULDN'T SAY EVEN '1' WORD TO HER," instead all they could do IS JUST LOOK AT HER!!! Now what does that tell you??!!

I don't know if you have seen any of the scans yourself, but from what I got "NO ONE" can see them, NOT EVEN HER PARENTS or a physician that her family has picked to see them- right? You see, this plays out JUST LIKE the O.J. case, AND IT'S SICKENING!!! You see, we all said "NEVER AGAIN" after O.J., BUT HERE WE ARE AGAIN, huh?
Terri was MURDERED right in front of our eyes, AND WE WERE POWERLESS TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT- according to MAN'S LAWS. Now if we would have lived by GOD'S LAWS on this one, first IT WOULD HAVE BEEN PROVEN whether she was in a PVS state or not, SHE WOULD HAVE GOTTEN ALL OF THE REHABILITATION THAT THERE WAS "BEFORE" ANY TALK OF PUTTING HER TO DEATH was to take place, right? But because of the Democrats, satanists, etc., in this country- they used MAN'S LAWS in EVERY WAY THEY COULD to TORTURE TERRI RIGHT IN FRONT OF ALL OF US, "AND LAUGHED IN OUR FACES THE WHOLE TIME WHILE THEY DID IT!!!"- And we just sat and watched!
"And people think that this world isn't as evil as Sodom and Gomorrah was?"??? HA! IT'S FAR WORSE!!! For Christ said "Don't weep for me, weep for yourselves. For it is written that a time will come when men will say 'blessed is the womb that is barren, and give birth to no child, for the evil that awaiteth any succling is most grievous;' for if this can happen when the wood is green, what will happen when the wood is dry?"...
Just plan on Judgment Day being any day now (don't be surprised if it is all of a sudden here), for these times (RIGHT NOW) ARE most evil, just fact.
So if you can, let us know where and how we can see the scans, or where we can read a "proven report" of the scans (a medical university site, or medical center with an actual Doctor's signature to them... ya know?). Thanks for getting us on these points with this, it does clear up things a lot more.

I am a conservative, but I am tired of the image of conservatives being trashed by knee-jerk types who don't even bother to do any research. I have read the report by Terri's guardian ad litum about the history of her case.
Michael AGRESSIVELY pursued rehab for Terri, including having electrical implants put in her brain to stimulate her nervous system. He was told by her doctors that, instead of getting better, she was getting worse and that she was in a PVS. Until that moment he did everything he could to help her get better. Right after he made that decision, I believe, he instituted a "no treatment" policy, to allow her to die with dignity, but was bullied and intimidated by her family into rescinding it.
People who say that they "know" of people who have partly recovered from a PVS all seem to be speaking of people whose brain injury is from a traumatic accident. If you look into the science of brain injury, you will see that people whose brain has suffered from severe oxygen deprivation (like Terri) NEVER get better. When the brain tissue is dead, it's dead!! Injury is different from death!!
Terri's family encouraged Michael to move on with his life UNTIL after the court case was settled. Michael had promised money to Terri's family, based on his assumption that there would be a multi-million dollar settlement. However, the judgement found that she was substantially responsible for her physical condition, and reduced the settlement by a large percentage. Michael had stopped working and was, I believe, studying Nursing to be able to better care for Terri. From the moment he told Terri's family that he couldn't give them any money, they turned on him. I believe they hoped to gain control of the money.
The guardian stated that it was a testament to Michael's care and watchfulness that Terri NEVER developed any bedsores or any other problems that usually come to people in her condition. Terri's attorney said that Michael was a nightmare for the nursing homes because he demanded such good care for his wife.
Terri's guardian also stated that Terri's family members had testified in court that she was in a Persistent Vegetative State. They also testified that they would pursue any and all medical remedies to keep her alive, including open heart surgery if she developed a heart condition, and progressive amputation of her extremities if she developed complications from a blood clot or diabetes in the future. All of this, NOT because they expected her to recover, but because "It gave them joy" to have her around. I don't know about you, but I would ABSOLUTELY HATE to be kept around as a inanimate pet or symbol for a family whose touch with reality was so tenuous.
The only people with ulterior motives was Terri's family, who were, apparently, projecting their own needs onto her poor, tortured body. If they believe in an afterlife, what do they think was happening to Terri's spirit as they treat her body as a source of joy, rather than letting her go home to the Lord?

"If they believe in an afterlife, what do they think was happening to Terri's spirit as they treat her body as a source of joy, rather than letting her go home to the Lord?"-susnhenz

If the Lord had taken Terri naturally without man choosing to deprive her of sustenance, I'm sure Terri's parents would've dealt with it accordingly, and noone, I don't care how sympathetic you are to Michael Schiavo's cause, can say that Terri died of natural causes. This is our outcry, in case you haven't understood the heart of the matter, yet. A few members of a profit oriented and self protecting industry (hospice) sided with the marriage rights of a husband who had abandoned his "marriage" already, to let someone who was a drain on finances and possibly, again, a medical malpractice liability for the doctors, just starve to death. A blind person's eyes cloud over, Terri could see...A catatonic person shows no emotion, Terri could smile, laugh, and cry. Her ability to swallow her own saliva and not drool indicated her ability to ingest liquids.

We as a society need to really ask ourselves, if we are ever as helpless as a newborn baby-but still somewhat aware, can we fully trust our husbands/wives or Government appointed Guardian to protect us for the duration, and is there some legal way, other than the living will, to ensure that as years go by and people change, whoever might be responsible for our care someday will have to meet certain standards equivalent to Child Protective Services? Michael Schiavo did not meet those standards.

If you read the guardian ad litum's report, as I suggested before, you will read:
"Eating and drinking are not unconscious processes. Therefore, Theresa's neurological status is directly linked to her ability to swallow.

A particularly disarming aspect of persons diagnosed with persistent vegetative state is that they have waking and sleeping cycles. When awake, their eyes are often open, they make noises, they appear to track movement, they respond to deep pain, and appear startled by loud noises. Further, because the autonomic nervous system those brain related functions are not affected, they can often breathe (without a respirator) and swallow (saliva). But there is no purposeful, reproducible, interactive, awareness. There is some controversy within the scientific medical literature regarding the characterization and diagnosis of persons in a persistent vegetative state. Highly competent, scientifically based physicians using recognized measures and standards have deduced, within a high degree of medical certainty, that Theresa is in a persistent vegetative state. This evidence is compelling.

Terri is a living, breathing human being. When awake, she sometimes groans, makes noises that emulate laughter or crying, and may appear to track movement. But the scientific medical literature and the reports this GAL obtained from highly respected neuro-science researchers indicate that these activities are common and characteristic of persons in a persistent vegetative state. "
He also stated that the most exact swallowing tests had been performed on her in the past and she could not pass them. To continue to try would eventually cause aspiration of the food or liquid into her lungs and infection. A person in a persistent vegetative state has periods of sleep and non-sleep, but when awake is NOT aware. They are capable only of activities controlled by the brain stem. These are autonomic activities, not requiring any concious thought, such as breathing, swallowing saliva (obviously autonomic, since we do it in our sleep with no conscious thought), etc. The guardian's report also pointed out that artificial nutrition through a feeding tube is considered in all states and by the Catholic Church as artificial life support and can be removed in case of brain death or persistent vegetative state. This whole sad episode has been a big knee-jerk reaction with people believing half-truths and lies about Terri's true physical condition, prognosis, and the motives of the family members involved. Read the guardian's report to see the extreme feelings of Terri's family, including their statement in court that, even if Terri had told them of her desire not to be kept alive in such circumstances, they would not remove the feeding tube because they wouldn't want to lose her. A human being was reduced to the condition of being her family's security blanket.
And for those of you who said Michael wanted to stop her nutrition for the lawsuite money, also read the guardian's report that he offered to give up any claim to the remaining money. That didn't satisfy her family.
It really seems that Terri's family, in the grip of extreme hysteria, convinced themselves that somehow Terri was aware. PVS patients can be un-nerving. They move, they open their eyes, they make sounds, they might even make the sound of laughing or crying. However, it is not conscious activity. Terri was at the far end of the life expectancy of a person in her condition. She probably only lived as long as she did because of the excellent care her husband insisted on. But, I know facts don't mean much when you have "TRUTH" on your side, or "TRUTH" as you've been told by the extreme media. This happens all the time all over the country, and no one hears about it. It's only because Terri's family promoted themselves that YOU know about it. Twenty years ago, Terri would have peacefully died shortly after she first suffered this catastrophic brain injury. Modern science kept her body alive. Lack of oxygen, however, killed her brain a long time ago.

"Religious hysterics" "Fundamental ignorance" "religious paranoia" My, my...

The fact that some posters ethical considerations--and Terri Schiavo's family's personal considerations--were informed by religious considerations does not make them invalid.

I suspect you are being accused of being a liberal because your definition of conservative is at odds with the pro-life position. I might even say that the anti-life position is a sine qua non of liberals.

People have lived long, productive, loving lives with severe brain injury, but we do not make "productive" the benchmark for eligibility to live, in the United States of America. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness were all denied to Terry Schiavo by starving and dehydrating her to death.

An honest Michael Schiavo would have divorced the woman, or allowed her to be fed or given water by mouth. If I am not mistaken, even an injured animal must be put down, it cannot be dehydrated or starved to death. There are no religious considerations in that, at all, just simple humanity.

An honest Michael Schiavo would have let her remain alive not in a hospice, but in a nursing home paid for by her social security disability if he wanted to be freed from the financial burden. No religious consideration there, just simple humanity.

Terry Schiavo was not dying, until her food and water were withheld. Brain injury is no reason to withhold food and water--I know, I am a nurse. Thousands of people who have had strokes or other brain injury are alive right now, cared for with compassion and love, fed and dressed, bathed and given medication as needed--even people without loving families, who are alone in the world. No religious considerations there, just simple humanity.

There is no rationale for killing the helpless, and Terri was killed. Terri was a living person, and no matter how you assess her function, she was alive. Her death by dehydration was no doubt painful, and was a profound, egregious evil--a human evil, even without the religious considerations you regard as negatively influencing the characterization of Michael Schiavo as a killer.

I am quite certain that even people with intractible pain who no longer desire to live, would choose to forgo all food and water in order to die. I am quite certain that is because there are less tortuous deaths, even given a debilitating, painful condition, than dehydration. In fact, I know of no one with a living will (and I've read quite a few) who has opted to have hydration withheld. You may be the exception, of course.