Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

It's been a blast but it's time to say goodbye (GOPcap's opus)
4/20/04 | me

Posted on 04/20/2005 9:22:15 AM PDT by GOPcapitalist

I'll keep this short and simple. After six years of membership on FR I've decided to resign from the forum today. I'll keep checking my freepmail for a few days and wind down my posts here, so if any of you wish to contact me please do so there and I will provide you with a means to do so. I hope to continue future posting activities elsewhere - perhaps a blog - but only time will tell.

It's truly been a blast and left me with many fond memories, but all good things had to come to an end. My favorites comprise a long list, the most noted being the exposition of Rathergate, leading freeps of Algore in the 2000 recounts, protesting Hildebeast's book tour, and giving her impeached husband a freeper's welcome to Texas on several of his visits. Thank you to all who made these events fun and entertaining. Unfortunately the past few months have made it clear to me that FR and I are drifting apart on key issues of conservatism. I'll spare the details, pausing only to state that it isn't just the usuals like illegal immigration, but also things like religion, the culture of political correctness, an overall decline in reasoned civil conversation that used to flourish here, and the purposes and uses of the site in general. More concerning, for the past few months I have been unable to even obtain rational discourse and commentary on many routine threads and issues without being personally maligned and attacked - many times out of the blue and on topics unrelated to the given thread - by a small, petty-minded, and vitriolic group of posters who conduct themselves in a manner unbefitting of what this forum used to be when I joined in 1999, and do so with apparent impunity.

I also find that I simply don't have the time to post as much as I once did, and regrettably so.

I'll leave it at that, as my fond memories outweigh the unpleasant ones. A time arises when parting courses on friendly terms is best before something less desirable arises. Therefore I have volunteered my resignation. To everyone who has made my FR experience enjoyable, I thank you and wish you only the best.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: attndeficitdisorder; checkersspeech; classof04; classof04trolls; closetlib; conceited; crybaby; crymeariver; donttroll; dramaqueen; elitism; elitist; everhearoffreepmail; frisdeclining; futureretread; grovel; hesrightyouknow; hittheroadjack; illholdmybreath; isthatyoumorrissey; jellopudding; justleavealready; justleavequietly; justlogout; lookatme; lookatmelookatme; mememememe; newscreenname; nobodymakesureadit; nosehair; noseintheair; ohthedrama; opus; outofthecloset; postundernewname; selfimportant; thegoodonesleave; whatever; whocares; youllbemissed
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 421-440441-460461-480 ... 501-520 next last
To: hocndoc; exnavychick
"Why so much emotion?"

Gee, let's see. Could it be a reaction to your post, "Forbidding oral hydration for comfort care was murder - a deliberate action intended to cause death by that direct action."?

You call a sitting judge a murderer, and you have the balls to ask ME why I'm so emotional? Stick to the facts of the case, assuming you know what they are, stay away from the conspiracy websites, and I'll welcome a civil debate with you.

You want to run with the black helicopter crowd, fine. But then you get what you deserve in the way of discourse.

441 posted on 04/21/2005 2:41:15 PM PDT by robertpaulsen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 440 | View Replies]

To: robertpaulsen; hocndoc

I guess not. :(


442 posted on 04/21/2005 3:05:18 PM PDT by exnavychick (There's too much youth; how about a fountain of smart?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 441 | View Replies]

To: exnavychick; robertpaulsen

I thought we could discuss a disagreement, but evidently not. I'm sorry if it bothers you exnavychick.

However, just as I'm qualified to write a "Do not resuscitate, comfort care only" order on a chart, I'm qualified to discern between euthanasia and allowing to die.

The deliberate action of forbidding oral hydration after forbidding tube feedings is an act to intentionally cause, rather than allow, the death of the one deprived. Whereas, if oral hydration had been allowed, but not tolerated or the amounts tolerated are not sufficient, then the patient dies of his or her disease. I have never heard of such a thing. My goodness, what difference could it have made, other than the sort of comfort for Terri and those around her that was afforded by her morphine drip?

Greer should be called to answer for it, by the appropriate authorities.


443 posted on 04/21/2005 3:31:23 PM PDT by hocndoc (Choice is the # 1 killer in the US)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 442 | View Replies]

To: hocndoc

Hey, no skin off my teeth. I just hate to see it, is all. Ah well.

Have a good one, folks.


444 posted on 04/21/2005 3:36:13 PM PDT by exnavychick (There's too much youth; how about a fountain of smart?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 443 | View Replies]

To: cyncooper
Hello,

I, personally, did not lie about those that held an opposite view from mine regarding the Terri case. Perhaps you found that your views had been lied about. If so, I am sorry that that happened. The truth of that matter is that good people fell on both sides of the issue. Not all lied. Some on both sides did.

I was appalled that she was starved and deprived of water, however, I understand that many here have had to deal with situations that caused them to come to the conclusion that they did. Please do not accuse all on one side or the other of lying, as it would be untrue.

It was and is an emotional issue. I believe that most here came to their beliefs about it honestly, regardless of their opinion , MOgirl
445 posted on 04/21/2005 3:37:01 PM PDT by MOgirl (My imaginary friend thinks you have serious mental problems...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 398 | View Replies]

To: MOgirl
I, personally, did not lie about those that held an opposite view from mine regarding the Terri case.

I did not say you did. You always seem to comport yourself in an amiable fashion.

Perhaps you found that your views had been lied about. If so, I am sorry that that happened. The truth of that matter is that good people fell on both sides of the issue. Not all lied. Some on both sides did.

I am speaking not only about myself but many many posters who were vilified by a pretty good-size group.

No amount of emotion excuses the behavior I witnessed for the past month. Sorry.

446 posted on 04/21/2005 3:40:19 PM PDT by cyncooper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 445 | View Replies]

To: cyncooper
Hello,

Truth is, I do not even know what side you were on in the Terri case. I am sure you were called names, regardless of the side you were on. I know, because I was called names as well. This has been a horrific experience for everyone, regardless of their opinion on this case.

What I do know is that regardless of the side chosen, the belief held in this case, people that I have respected for many years here held a different view than I did. Does that mean I will turn my back on them, and call them names? No. I will not. This has been too divisive already. I do believe that we need to address the issues of this case and others like it, as it could affect each of us.

I am glad to be here, MOgirl
447 posted on 04/21/2005 3:55:31 PM PDT by MOgirl (My imaginary friend thinks you have serious mental problems...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 446 | View Replies]

To: MOgirl

It's not name calling alone (though that certainly happened). It was distortions of truth, disregard for facts, trafficking in rank rumor and slander, ganging up on posters.

That type of tone has become more prominent on the forum and it is quite unpleasant and it detracts from the over-all credibility of FR.


448 posted on 04/21/2005 4:00:33 PM PDT by cyncooper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 447 | View Replies]

To: hocndoc
"The deliberate action of forbidding oral hydration"

Judge Greer did NOT forbid oral hydration.

A motion was presented to him to allow an experimental procedure regarding oral hydration. That motion was denied because of that.

Now, how is this Judge Greer's fault? He didn't write the motion -- he simply ruled on it.

You know that Terri was unable to swallow. Yet you insist that those involved at least "go through the motions" so you can sleep better telling yourself "they tried".

All well and good to ask for this, just as those who asked that flowers be placed in her room. But when it's not done, to then call the judge a murderer, well, that's over the top.

449 posted on 04/21/2005 4:01:38 PM PDT by robertpaulsen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 443 | View Replies]

To: cyncooper
Hello,

I agree that FR has been harmed by the entire Terrie case. I also believe that the majority of those on each side are good and decent people who came to their views honestly. FR has gone through wild times before, I lurked here for many years before signing up to post. Each time, after days or months went by, FR regained it's former stature. FR will again be what it is intended to be.

Let's stick together, OK? Glad to be here, MOgirl
450 posted on 04/21/2005 4:25:09 PM PDT by MOgirl (In memory of Walton Wayne Callahan, I love you forever.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 448 | View Replies]

To: MOgirl

Your posts always make me smile.

:)


451 posted on 04/21/2005 4:27:09 PM PDT by cyncooper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 450 | View Replies]

To: cyncooper
Hello,

Thanks! Glad to be here, MOgirl
452 posted on 04/21/2005 4:33:58 PM PDT by MOgirl (In memory of Walton Wayne Callahan, I love you forever.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 451 | View Replies]

To: GOPcapitalist
I've been here as long as you and we both know this kind of thing happens from time to time. but for you to QUIT, I can't believe it.

You had to expect This sort of thing to happen once the Evil Dums caught on to the power of the internet. They are so yesterday and live to bring America back to the 30's that it never occured to thme that technology had passed them by. You are a pioneer in the FR experience. I am asking you to reconsider your position and stay here as an active member. You helped make FR Great.

453 posted on 04/21/2005 4:40:51 PM PDT by marty60
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: x
x,

As always, I have the utmost unqualified respect for your opinions and not having spent the time on the civil war threads in recent years will have to give the instances you cite full credence.

That being said, anyone leaving has my best wishes, even some that I crossed swords with, and the Opus author does not fall into the later category. Heck, I even wrote an Opus thread for Storm Orphan myself. I guess that knowing man's basic flaws and imperfectability as well as I do and wholly accepting them, I always keep a kind thought for the good that does survive unless I find none at all.

454 posted on 04/21/2005 4:41:27 PM PDT by KC Burke (Men of intemperate minds can never be free....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 437 | View Replies]

To: KC Burke

Well said.


455 posted on 04/21/2005 7:03:03 PM PDT by x
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 454 | View Replies]

To: robertpaulsen

The Order says explicitly that the hearing on March 7th concerned an "Emergency Expedited Motion for Permission to Provide Theresa Schiavo with Food and Water by Natural Means after the assisted nutrition and hydration are discontinued..."


Greer drew a conclusion. He could have concluded that the title of the Petition was the meaning of the petition. He did not.

As I said, I've worked with hospice in my practice. There is a difference between allowing the patient to die without further medical interference and between hastening and causing the death of the patient.

It is often a fine line.

It was not in this case.

Greer caused the death: first by discontinuing artificial means of feeding the patient who was in no distress, second, by ordering Terri to be taken to the hospital for the medical procedure to remove the tube, and most directly by forbidding hydration and nutrition by "Natural Means."

I have never heard of the second intervention - I would simply stop using the tube if it became distressful for the patient, possibly remove it at the bedside if the tract or surrounding tissue became infected or macerated - and would never contemplate or allow the third.


I know that Terri did not choke on her own saliva or nasal/sinus secretions. She did not require suctioning. She did not have repeated episodes of aspiration pneumonia secondary to her salivary and sinus secretions. I know that she could swallow small amounts of thin liquids.


Someone ordered and gave Terri morphine -- !! by IV !! And Greer allowed this medical intervention, which was superfluous if Terri was in a vegetative state.



You have been misled:

This was euthanasia - the intentional killing of a patient by another agent, rather than by the patient's disease.

It was unethical, as are all acts of euthanasia.

Unethical deliberate killing is "murder."

Greer murdered Terri Schiavo.

And I believe that he should be prosecuted for that crime. I hope that there is a brave DA who will charge him.


456 posted on 04/22/2005 1:41:15 AM PDT by hocndoc (Choice is the # 1 killer in the US)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 449 | View Replies]

To: hocndoc
"Greer drew a conclusion. He could have concluded that the title of the Petition was the meaning of the petition. He did not."

Ah, so now you're a judge, also? Maybe he should have totally ignored what was written and ruled on what was said? Or, even better, ruled on what was implied by what was said?

Give me a break. If the judge had refused nutrition because of the title of the Petition, you'd be screaming that a judge should never go by the title but by the actual wording of the document.

You are a piece of work.

"I know that Terri did not choke on her own saliva or nasal/sinus secretions. She did not require suctioning. She did not have repeated episodes of aspiration pneumonia secondary to her salivary and sinus secretions. I know that she could swallow small amounts of thin liquids."

Did not, did not, did not. I don't care what she "did not". What did she do? According to you, "she could swallow small amounts of thin liquids". Yeah. Involuntarily. So?

Are you suggesting that Terri was capable of voluntarily swallowing? Are you suggesting that Terri was capable of voluntarily swallowing enough nutrition to keep her alive? Isn't that the issue?

"This was euthanasia - the intentional killing of a patient by another agent, rather than by the patient's disease."

Baloney! Terri had the constitutional right to refuse treatment. She expressed this wish to at least three people. An impartial and disinterested judge heard the testimony and had "clear and convincing" evidence as to her wishes.

Look elsewhere for your euthanasia case to proselytize. It ain't here, no matter how much you want to be.

457 posted on 04/22/2005 6:30:17 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 456 | View Replies]

To: robertpaulsen

If you can correct the science and the ethics, do so.

The swallowing test reports which I have read online showed inconsistancy. Sometimes she swallowed, sometimes the fluid "pooled," and sometimes it ran out of her mouth. Not a concern in the last weeks of life.

Neither is it relevant that swallowing is "involuntary."

In no way could oral hydration be called "treatment."

What is your take on the medical intervention to remove the tube and the insertion of an IV for a morphine drip?

In my experience, people who are truly at the end of life find the oral secretions uncomfortable, causing nausea and choking. We treat with a scopolamine patch.

The pertinent ethical (and, I believe, legal) point is whether the death was due to natural causes and secondary to the disease process or whether it was due to actions that were intended to and which led to her immediate death.

Theresa Schiavo did not die of her disease. Her disease was chronic and stable for over 10 years.

She died because of deliberate acts to deny nutrition by a feeding tube that was not causing her distress and, simultaneously (and in contravention of what I understand Florida law to be) Greer forbade "Natural Means."

That last act, at least, is clear-cut euthanasia, which is illegal in all States except Oregon. The reason it is illegal is because it is murder. Greer murdered Theresa Schiavo and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.


458 posted on 04/22/2005 2:40:19 PM PDT by hocndoc (Choice is the # 1 killer in the US)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 457 | View Replies]

To: Allosaurs_r_us
LOL -- Great .GIF!

<saving>

459 posted on 04/22/2005 4:57:52 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 414 | View Replies]

To: robertpaulsen; hocndoc
The maxim lawyers swear by is "hard cases make bad law". The case you are arguing about is one of them. Speaking just for myself, I've resolutely resisted coming to any final conclusion about that case, and likewise resisted listening to anyone I thought was arguing a cause not the case -- and I honestly don't know what to think about it. It's entirely possible for business interests (insurance companies, hospitals, "health-care" conglomerates) to combine with a benighted judiciary to secure a non-judicial "solution" to impediments to their interest. They did it in the 19th century when an activist Supreme Court associate justice, agitating from the bench, helped the railroads make their wishes into law, even to the point of granting artificial persons -- corporations -- all the rights of citizens, irregularly, through a side door.

And our country isn't the only one where this has happened; the jurisprudence of Europe is littered with examples; Roman law was rotten with it, and the Carthaginians likewise cut their own throats by tampering with their supreme court, in a case of constitutional failure cited by Polybius.

But I don't know what to make of this case, except that it has a lot of good people at one another's throats. If, as Ex Navy Chick suggested above, we can't all get along, maybe some of us can agree to disagree, without any penalty to sexual performance, self-image, or social stature.

460 posted on 04/22/2005 7:04:32 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 457 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 421-440441-460461-480 ... 501-520 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson