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advice needed
1 posted on 01/29/2005 3:57:07 PM PST by cicero's_son
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To: cicero's_son
Get something that will knock someone down. At 9mm doesn't cut it. Get a .45 ACP.
2 posted on 01/29/2005 3:59:02 PM PST by KoRn
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To: cicero's_son

Get A Sig Sauer...


4 posted on 01/29/2005 4:03:12 PM PST by Echo Talon (http://echotalon.blogspot.com/)
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To: cicero's_son

Personally, I like both my Glocks and my SIGs.

I like the Glock because it fits my hands and the grip angle is perfect for me (some say it's too sharp). The ability to attach a light to the large and medium frame Glocks is nice, but you can't do that on the Glock 26 (compact 9mm). You can have the trigger easily swapped. I use a 3.5lb disconnect but would probably go with a 5lb or higher on a compact CCW weapon.

I also like my SIGs. My first SIG, a P226 I bought in Germany, has over 45,000rnds through it and is still a fine weapon. My P229 in .40SW is smaller and I carry that model usually.

You can't go wrong with almost any of the major, respectable firearms manufacturers. Learn to shoot with a variety of range guns BEFORE you decide. You may find that you can reall rock with a specific model above all others.
Good luck.


5 posted on 01/29/2005 4:03:27 PM PST by SJSAMPLE
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To: cicero's_son
Click Here see what Homeland Security bought... GO SIG!
7 posted on 01/29/2005 4:05:44 PM PST by Echo Talon (http://echotalon.blogspot.com/)
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To: cicero's_son

I just purchased a CZ 75B 9MM
Its a great weapon to shoot and easy to clean.


9 posted on 01/29/2005 4:07:06 PM PST by FedUp
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To: cicero's_son

If you want an exceptional pistol to learn with that doesn't cost too much, I heartily recommend the Walther P22 with the 3 1/2" barrel. It will prepare you for a Glock or any other more powerful handgun, and will always remain a favorite for outdoor carry. About $200.


10 posted on 01/29/2005 4:07:56 PM PST by Sender (Team Infidel USA)
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To: cicero's_son

Went through same exercise about a year ago. 9mm is ok but size does matter. Since I wanted my wife not to be too afraid of it to use it if necessary, I chose .40 Smith & Wesson cartrige in a jacketed hollow point load. Plenty of power, less expensive to use at range. Glock, S & W, Taurus,Charter Arms,lots of other good small semi autos out there. Also several good websites out there to help you read up on home defense guns and cartriges. Shoot lots of shells.


15 posted on 01/29/2005 4:10:40 PM PST by tightwadbob
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To: cicero's_son

I carry a Ruger KP90. (.45)

I suspect most replies here will be about some 1911 incarnation, any of which would be a good choice as well.


16 posted on 01/29/2005 4:10:53 PM PST by Tarpaulin (Look it up.)
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To: cicero's_son
For a novice, I would pick a Model 37 Glock in .45 GAP.

It's the same size as a Glock 9,, but offers real stopping power.
I and a lot of other people find the slow push recoil of a 45 easier to controll than the sharp slap of a 9mm.

So9

19 posted on 01/29/2005 4:16:23 PM PST by Servant of the 9 (Trust Me)
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To: cicero's_son
To answer the "exact" question you asked, and blow off all these hand cannon advocates, this is the sweetest little semi you'll ever handle.

Kal Tec .32 defender.

And it is unbelieveably accurate for it's size.

32 posted on 01/29/2005 4:33:27 PM PST by xcamel (Deep Red, stuck in a "bleu" state.)
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To: cicero's_son

Here is a link that may be helpful. Read down to caliber and it shows penetration and 1 shot stopping effectiveness for each caliber and different loads for each.


http://www.internetarmory.com/handgunammo.htm


34 posted on 01/29/2005 4:34:37 PM PST by tightwadbob
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To: cicero's_son
Glocks are great but a bit ugly......don't overlook the Ruger P series, look on Ruger's website. They often don't get mentioned but like their revolvers which are the best along with S&W, their auto's are some of the best built out there.....google for info on them. 9mm are best to start with and sometimes best overall if you are small framed or recoil sensitive.....if it is the only gun, you may still want to look at t revolver...They are stronger, more durable, more accurate and easier for maintenance. If you get a 357 mag, you can shoot and therefore practice with 38 special ammo which is cheaper. If I had only one handgun it would be a Ruger GP 100 in 357 magnum which if you research it is the most versatile handgun caliber there is.....research it on google and you'll find the same thing
38 posted on 01/29/2005 5:22:34 PM PST by NorCalRepub
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To: cicero's_son
Here's some food for thought.  I carry a Glock 9mm (G-19), and wear it virtually every day.  Not because there's any particular danger here in New Hampshire (it's a pretty safe state... perhaps because so many carry weapons), but rather because a failure to train on a regular basis makes you a danger to yourself and others.

Here are the questions I asked myself, and the answers that pointed me to the G-19 and Comp-TAC holster:

1) Why do I want a weapon?  Personal security in an ever-more-dangerous world.

2) Where will I have to use that weapon?  My home and elsewhere.

3) What kind of weapon do I want? It's got to be reliable, concealable, and not cost me an arm and a leg.  Ammunition must be readily available and affordable; in my opinion, if you don't practice you shouldn't carry or use a weapon.  

4) What caliber do I want?  The largest caliber that I can shoot with accuracy.  However, this must be evaluated against the number of bullets I can carry.  Also, if my use of a pistol includes concealed carry, then the weapon must be concealable and comfortable.  In researching "comfort", I ran into a lot of posts indicating that, for my size frame (6', 180 pounds), the G-19 was a lot more comfortable and generated less back pain than larger calibers.  (Note: I also considered a .380, but the practice ammunition was significantly more expensive, and I intended to make "practice" a high priority.)

5) What's more important, accuracy or "stopping power"?  In research at http://www.ammolab.com and http://www.tacticalforums.com I found that the 1155 fps velocity of the 124-grain Speer 9mm's seemed to deliver the same amount of energy as most .45 rounds.  In test firing, I found that I could reliably place 8 out of 10 rounds in a 6" bullseye at 7 yards with the 9mm, but only 3 out of 10 with the .45.  (Note:  since then, I've improved for both calibers... but that  was back then... ).  I determined that it was more important to hit the target with 8 rounds than miss it with 7).

6) What do other firearm users prefer? I found that most police units employ the 9mm (either SiG or Glock).  "If it's good enough for the police, it's good enough for me." I thought.

 

Putting the data together, and mulling it around a bit, I decided to get the Glock G-19:

1) It's very concealable.

2) It's relatively accurate.  While the SIG has a better reputation for accuracy, that accuracy comes at the cost of maintainability and durability. 

3) It's the most easily-maintained pistol in 9mm.  It's also incredibly durable... bury 'em in sand, freeze 'em in ice... they fire a bullet.  However, the loose tolerances make the pistol slightly less accurate.

4) Speer Gold Dots and Remington Golden Sabers have excellent fps ratings, and provide serious cavity damage in gel block tests ... without over-penetration.  

5) Practice ammunition is cheap.  You can get 100 rounds of Winchester 9mm for $10.96 at Wal-Mart.   

6) The G-19 cost me $415.  A SIG was going to run $725.

 

Oh, and as far as accuracy goes, here are a couple of targets shot at a range of 10 yards (30 days and 600 rounds after I purchased my G-19).  The diameter of the "black" on the top target is 5 1/2 inches.  

I decided that a Comp-TAC holster was my choice, and have been very pleased with it (http://www.comp-tac.com/).

I also purchased a Gunvault safe... I don't want to come home some night and find that I've been burglarized, or that my kids had a friend over and someone got to "playing" with my weapon and killed himself.

 

Getting a weapon is only the beginning... you will need to thoroughly understand the laws in your state.  I've appended an email I sent my son before he attended an NRA course; while the laws for your state will vary, you'll need to understand not only what you can do, but what you should or should not do.

Good Luck!

 

=========================================

 

 

Matt, it is absolutely essential that you understand this portion of the New Hampshire law before Saturday’s class.

 

-Dad

 

 

TITLE LXII
CRIMINAL CODE

CHAPTER 627
JUSTIFICATION

Section 627:4

    627:4 Physical Force in Defense of a Person. -
    I. A person is justified in using non-deadly force upon another person in order to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful, non-deadly force by such other person, and he may use a degree of such force which he reasonably believes to be necessary for such purpose. However, such force is not justifiable if:
       (a) With a purpose to cause physical harm to another person, he provoked the use of unlawful, non-deadly force by such other person; or
       (b) He was the initial aggressor, unless after such aggression he withdraws from the encounter and effectively communicates to such other person his intent to do so, but the latter notwithstanding continues the use or threat of unlawful, non-deadly force; or
       (c) The force involved was the product of a combat by agreement not authorized by law.
    II.
A person is justified in using deadly force upon another person when he reasonably believes that such other person:
      
(a) Is about to use unlawful, deadly force against the actor or a third person;
       (b) Is likely to use any unlawful force
against a person present while committing or attempting to commit a burglary;

       (c) Is committing or about to commit kidnapping or a forcible sex offense;
or
       (d) Is likely to use any unlawful force in the commission of a felony against the actor within such actor's dwelling or its curtilage.
    III. A
person is not justified in using deadly force on another to defend himself or a third person from deadly force by the other if he knows that he and the third person can, with complete safety:
       (a) Retreat from the encounter, except that he is not required to retreat if he is within his dwelling or its curtilage and was not the initial aggressor; or
       (b) Surrender property to a person asserting a claim of right thereto; or
       (c) Comply with a demand that he abstain from performing an act which he is not obliged to perform; nor is the use of deadly force justifiable when, with the purpose of causing death or serious bodily harm, the actor has provoked the use of force against himself in the same encounter.
       (d) I
f he is a law enforcement officer or a private person assisting him at his direction and was acting pursuant to RSA 627:5, he need not retreat.

Source. 1971, 518:1. 1981, 347:1, 2, eff. Aug. 16, 1981.

 

 

=========================================

 

Summary: 

If you start the fight, you surrender your right to defend yourself with deadly force.

If you can retreat, and do so safely, you surrender your right to use deadly force.  (Note: this does not apply to your own home IF you didn’t provoke a fight that ends up in you home.  If you pick a fight with someone in the street and they follow you inside your house, you could well be considered the aggressor.  In that situation, if you use deadly force, you could be convicted of manslaughter or murder).

If  you have possession of someone else’s property, and they are asserting a claim to it, you may not use deadly force to retain the property.

If you are asked to refrain from conduct that you are not legally required to perform (e.g., asked to “keep the noise down!”), you surrender your right to use deadly force, even if provoked in an argumentative manner.

Guidelines:  Be Polite.  Avoid Confrontation.  Don’t go STUPID places, with STUPID people, or do STUPID things.

 

(In general, these guidelines work for all aspects of life, with our without a weapon on your body)

 

Love,

Dad

 

40 posted on 01/29/2005 5:35:48 PM PST by StoneGiant
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To: mylife; HiJinx; Lady Jag

PING!
Ms.B


41 posted on 01/29/2005 5:50:23 PM PST by MS.BEHAVIN (If it is not right, do not do it; if it is not true, do not say it. Marcus Aurelius)
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To: cicero's_son

GLOCK 27

Caliber: .40

GLOCK 27

Caliber .40

Action Safe Action System

Length (slide) 6.29 in. 160 mm

Height 2) 4.17 in. 106 mm

Width 1.18 in. 30 mm

Length between sights 3) 5.67 in. 144 mm

Barrel length 3.46 in. 88 mm

Barrel rifling right, hexagonal

Length of twist 9.84 in. 250 mm

Magazine capacity 4) 9 / 11

Mass (weight)

Empty without magazine 19.75 oz. 560 g

Empty magazine 2.12 oz. 60 g

Full magazine 5) ~7.23 oz. ~205 g

Trigger pull (standard) ~5.5 lbs. ~2.5 kg

Trigger travel for discharge 6) 0.5 in. 12.5 mm

Number of safeties 3

1) C: Compensated
2) Includes magazine and sight
3) With sight rear 6.5
4) Check local law and regulations.l
5) Depending on the used ammunition
6) Includes trigger safety

42 posted on 01/29/2005 5:54:50 PM PST by BenLurkin (Big government is still a big problem.)
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To: cicero's_son; MS.BEHAVIN
Please don't go out and buy a 9 mm; it's the worst you could get for self defense. I am an NRA personal protection instructor and have taught a couple hundred people.

Everyone is different. First of all, if you want a big gun, you'll want a .45 or .40. Find out how much it weighs. My Colt Commander weighs about 37 oz, over two pounds. Get something the same weight and similar size and carry it on you for a week. It becomes heavy and not only that, its length makes it uncomfortable and difficult to conceal, and it unbalances your body.

Then there's your size, location and personality to consider.

Take your time. Take the course and ask the instructors. Hopefully they'll be reasonable.

I carry guns every day. Freepmail me if you want.

43 posted on 01/29/2005 6:03:39 PM PST by Lady Jag (All I want is a kind word, a warm bed, and unlimited power)
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To: cicero's_son
OR

GLOCK 36 Specifications

Caliber .45 ACP

44 posted on 01/29/2005 6:12:55 PM PST by BenLurkin (Big government is still a big problem.)
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To: cicero's_son
Im probably gonna get flamed for this

But Soviet Makarovs in 9x18mm are small, effective, cheap, dependable and accurate.

Maks simply dont jam or break and the fixed barrel is very accurate.

A lot of guys that used to tote heavy 45s and bulky glocks all day now carry Makarovs do to ease of concealment and effectivness


46 posted on 01/29/2005 6:32:01 PM PST by mylife (The roar of the masses could be farts)
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To: cicero's_son

Hi, Sorry for the laet post but I couldn't find this one last night. Good Luck.


http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs31.htm


54 posted on 01/30/2005 8:53:29 AM PST by tightwadbob
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To: cicero's_son
May i suggest a small revolver, maybe a model 60 Smith or something along those lines. They are as reliable as a Cat diesel. They conceal well, they can be purchased in a variety of calibers. Don't get me wrong I'm a firm believer in autos, carried one as a duty gun for years.
I just feel it's important that the weapon be 100% reliable.
There are autos out there that have very good track records when it comes to reliability ( Sigs, Glocks ) But even those weapons don't hold a candle to a revolver when it comes down to it.
55 posted on 01/31/2005 7:47:42 AM PST by Graycliff
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