Waco Texas

[LauraleeBraswell]

Does anyone know about the tragety of Waco Texas? If and How were Janet Reno and President Bill Clinton involved and what did they do?

[ChefKeith]

Yep, I forgot about that.

However, I'm not the one that needs to be set strait on this whole thing it's theDoctor and I don't have the time right now to spoon feed theDoc every little tidbit of info the he is misunderstanding or not willing to accept.

[ChefKeith]

Y'all interested in voicing an opinion on any of this?

[doug from upland]

From the archives of 6 years ago ---

MIDI - END OF THE WORLD

How could they burn all those children
How can they cover their crime
Don't you all know that our freedom is gone
If someone doesn't pay this time

Why were they shooting that tear gas
Knowing a fire would start
They meant to kill everybody inside
It leaves us with an aching heart

Some tyrants do bad things around the world
There's evil everyday…that is clear
But we can't understand…no, we can't understand
How things like this can happen here

Why has it all been accepted
People were shot as they fled
You should all fear they will do it to you
If those in power want you dead

(musical interlude)

You should all fear they will do it to you
If those in power want you dead

[BenLurkin]

Please see Post #83

[7.62 x 51mm]

(Babe)

[kingsurfer]

Nah it is a fair question.

I am in my twenties and know little about the Clinton era.
I was too busy partying and occasionally going to school to remember much.

[Shooter 2.5]

Welcome to FR. The Waco incident provokes a lot of anger in a lot of people. They're angry at the incident, Koresh and the government. Unfortunately, a lot of that anger spills over to the members of FR.

My opinion is both sides wanted a war. The ATF wanted a war to justify their budget and Koresh wanted Armageddon. The kids were stuck in the middle.

[humblegunner]

Y'all interested in voicing an opinion on any of this?

I was, until I read how the thread has turned out! ;-)

Maybe this afternoon after a few beers I'll get to feeling
more belligerant and offer up a few brilliant insights on the topic.

[Rightly Biased]

Lauralee

Look for "Waco Rules of Ingagement" at your local video store it'll tell the story pretty good.

Clinton was a fault for ignoring the whole event and Reno for giving the go ahead to kill them. Basically.

RB<><

hang tough sometimes the troll zotters go wild and want to zot everone with a question.

[School of Rational Thought]

Don't pay any attention to theDentist or 7.65. This is a diverse group and we have our share of the vulgar and immature.

However, you will have to understand that as a generally conservative group, we appreciate independent thinking and self-reliance. It appears that in asking your question you have stepped on that nerve.

[DocH]

As far as destroyed evidence goes, don't forget that the frickin' FRONT DOOR, which many believe would have PROVED that the BAT-FAGS fired the first shots, magically DISAPPEARED, thanks to the FBI/BATF.

Also, don't forget that the BATF had search warrants with manufactured BULLSHIT info on them, which had NOTHING to do with alcohol, tobacco, OR firearms. For instance, there were charges of a meth lab in the basement (so they could justify the otherwise ILLEGAL act of using military help against U.S. citizens in domestic law enforcement), which was never proved.

Don't forget also, that the same tactics used by the Clinton/Reno out-of-control government to MURDER innocent men, women, children, and pet animals at Waco, were also previously tested at Ruby Ridge. They just got more efficient at the propaganda and the killing by the time Waco rolled around. A plywood shack was a "mountain fortress", a modest gun collection (even at Waco, the number of guns, if broken down per person that LIVED there, was less than the average number of guns per Texas gun owner) was a "cache of weapons", a group of Christians who just wanted to be left alone and practice their own way of worship, albeit, strange to many - was a "cult". Just like "kraut" and "zipperhead" were used to dehumanize the enemy during WWII, and "gook" was used in Viet Nam, the SAME things were done in the Clinton/Reno war on the Christian Right. "Cultists" and "white separatists" (like the Branch Davidians, Randy Weaver just wanted to be left alone to live his life the way he saw fit) are easier to justify murdering than "American Citizens".

What happened at Waco, and at Ruby Ridge, came down to arrogant, left-wing, out-of-control, power-mongering government bureaucrats and overly militarized federal law enforcement agencies ABUSING power to push their agenda and justify their existence. They did it through using trumped up charges, propaganda and negative labels, technicalities (especially where the original charges of failing to pay TAXES on otherwise LEGALLY assembled semi-auto firearms at Waco, or the small length of two shotgun barrels Weaver was ENTRAPPED/ENTICED into sawing off for an undercover BAT-FAG informant at Ruby Ridge), brute government force at the end of a barrel (like MAO), making up their own rules of engagement, destroying evidence which would be incriminating to the goverment, manufacturing evidence to support their original claims (funny how everthing was destroyed or charred by the massive fire at Waco, yet they trotted out supposedly fully automatic AK's and other weapons at trial that looked untouched), and by playing games with and essentially ignoring the Posse Comitatus (spelling?)Act which forbids domestic law enforcement from using the military for domestic law enforcement actions (they got around that with the blatantly FALSE charge of a meth lab in the basement of the Brach Davidian building). Military helicopters were used to shoot down into the building, and tank-like armored vehicles were used to pump in a HIGHLY FLAMMABLE mist of gas. Even if they THOUGHT there would be no danger of fire in an all wood structure on a flat plain with winds gusting at high speed, which is hard to believe - then AT LEAST they should have considered the gagging, choking, and potentially DEADLY effects of gassing LITTLE CHILDREN.

And after all this, what happened? The FBI and ATF supervisors who SHOULD have been tried and put to death for abusing their power and murdering innocent American citizens, were promoted, reassigned, or allowed to retire. They even had a FAKE "investigation" into what the FBI did that "may have" caused the death of over EIGHTY people, and of course, were found to have done nothing wrong. What a surprise.

We can only hope that the goverment bastards responsible (INCLUDING Clinton and Reno) do NOT sleep well, and suffer a death AT LEAST as agonizing as the men, women, and children they tortured (sleep deprivation, light deprivation, loud obnoxious music & the death cries of rabbits blared day and night by PSYOPS agents with extremely loud speakers), terrorized (with the initial assault by heavily armored and armed masked Jack-Booted Thugs with fully automatic weapons and flash-bang grenades), gassed, and burned to death. Anyone that doesn't know the TRUE story of Ruby Ridge and Waco, NEEDS to research it from all angles. Don't just see the two propaganda, made-for-TV (actually, made for an unsuspecting, all too trusting public) B-grade movies RUSHED out at the time, or read the lies and distortions in books of FICTION written by people like former Jack-Booted-Thug (interestingly enough, originally coined by a DEMOCRAT from Michigan named Dingall, and NOT by the NRA, as the media widely reported and the first President Bush believed), Chistopher Whitcomb ("Cold Zero").

Do an internet search, and you'll find a number of sites, and also a number of books and documentary videos listed.

Just as we shouldn't forget Pearl Harbor or 9/11, we should NEVER forget Ruby Ridge or Waco... OR... EVER let them happen again.

By the way, do you think there is ANY mention of Ruby Ridge or Waco at Clinton's LIE-brary?

[freepatriot32]

probably two of the best books on the subject that go into deep detail about what happened can be found at amazon or your local bookstore are

Armageddon in Waco : Critical Perspectives on the Branch Davidian Conflict

A Place Called Waco: A Survivor's Story

you should also rent waco the rules of engagement like others on this thread have suggested and by all means ignore all the jerks on this thread they are just doing it to get attention and should be ignored like you would any other hyper spoiled petulant child that is acting like a horses rear end

[Oztrich Boy]

"Respect my AUTHORITY!".

Pay no attention to the copsuckers.

What happened was the BATF nimrods were in bad publicity trouble right before budget time.
So they conceived "Showtime" an operation to assault a fringe cult. get some TV footage of them going in and busting heads, and discovering an "arsenal".

They lied to the Texas gov about Davidian "drug mamufacture" to get use of National Guard assets
Lied to the judge to get a "knock and nnnounce" warrant which
they never took to the door
because a peaceful entry was never on their game plan.

[theDentist]

Yes, all pretty much true. They were also coming up on annual funding from the Fed and needed a bit of publicity to show for the increase they were requesting.

chef took a nasty attitude from the first, and I wasn't going out, so I figured I'd play.

[Mad Dawgg]

"Geez some of you FReeper are just too paranoid. Lighten up and back away from the 'troll alert'."

No, I was extrapolating from the post I was replying to it seemed the poster did not believe her and I was pointing out that if she is now 18 she would have been fairly young when the Waco tragedy happened. Usually youngsters do not pay much attention to political events.

[Casloy]

and refused to let authorities arrest Koresh for some weapons charges.

Let me finish the story. So the ATF sent a couple of bus loads of poorly trained, black clad, ski masked agents to the compound. In a predictable scenario the residents (who were admittedly quite wacko) fought back and the result was an avoidable gun battle in which ATF agents and residents were killed and wounded. Then the FBI took over and in a flash of brilliance decided noises and lights would get these people to give up. Knowing they were already quite an "on the edge" group they then decided to tear gas the house because they had information, for which they could never provide a shred of evidence, that children were being abused. Whether the fire was started by the FBI or the residents has never been determined, but no doubt the heavy hand of the US government was a direct cause of the death of lots of innocent children. And why did the FBI attack the compound after 50 days? Probably because Janet Reno was getting impatient or embarrassed.

[Archer24]

If I remember right, didn't DK volunteer to let ATF look at their weapons before all this started? I think he overheard something in town one day and told the sheriff that he was welcome to come out to the compound and have a look see.

A24

[investigateworld]

Ever wonder why Slick sent that kid back to Cuba?

[Swordmaker]

If I remember right, didn't DK volunteer to let ATF look at their weapons before all this started? I think he overheard something in town one day and told the sheriff that he was welcome to come out to the compound and have a look see.

You remember correctly... in fact the Branch Davidians had "made" the BATF agents in the house across the road and had visited them, invited them over, even did some target shooting with them.

The raid was ordered by the BATF upper management because they wanted a "big arrest" because funding was coming up before Congress. The agency even notified the media in advance of the raid.

[Casloy]

Ever wonder why Slick sent that kid back to Cuba?

Yeah, it's called cowardice and a lack of a moral compass.