Waco Texas

[LauraleeBraswell]

Does anyone know about the tragety of Waco Texas? If and How were Janet Reno and President Bill Clinton involved and what did they do?

[girlscout]

Good keywords for a Google search on this tragedy would be Branch Davidians. That was the name this group of folks lived and operated under.

[MotleyGirl70]

We were missing a post from a sarcastic smartass. Thanks for your input.

[Terpesman]

That just about covers it.

I remember reading about the child abuse case that Reno was involved in, it was insane. I don't understand how someone like that gets to be attorney general of the US.

[SouthTexas]

But they got all the dogs!!!

[Clemenza]

You're a BABY! I was in high school when it happened.

The fact of the matter is that the FEDS had EVERY OPPORTUNITY IN THE WORLD to arrest Koresh when he was out in the Waco area. Thanks to Federal incompetance (to say nothing of Koresh's megalomania) people died.

[COBOL2Java]

From rotten.com:

---

David Koresh

Vernon Wayne Howell was pretty much your average Houston teenager. "Vernie," as the other kids called him, was a dyslexic high school dropout born to an unwed teenaged mother. Pretty typical. In 1979, he went to Hollywood to make it as a rock guitarist, but after only two years gave up and moved to Waco.

In Waco he became a member of the Branch Davidian Seventh-Day Adventist religious cult, led by 67-year-old Lois Roden. Vernon enjoyed a sexual relationship with the charismatic senior citizen. When Lois died in 1986, a bitter power struggle ensued between Vernon and Roden's son George.

When a majority of congregants sided with George Roden, Vernon's followers were forced off the Mount Carmel complex at gunpoint. They relocated to Palestine, Texas. It seemed to have been basically a peaceful schism, as far as your crazy religious cults go.

But truth be told, nobody was all that surprised when Vernon returned to Mount Carmel in 1987 dressed in camoflauge with seven trusted acolytes. They had two shotguns, seven rifles, and 400 rounds of ammo. George Roden wound up with gunshot wounds in his hands and chest. Vernon and his squad were brought up on attempted murder charges, but none were ever convicted.

After the trials, Vernon was the undisputed leader of the Branch Davidians, but the whole experience had made him sort of paranoid. It attracted the attention of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms when they got into the business of selling guns. Beginning in 1991, the group began spending what would become a total of $199,715 on inventory. The UPS guy was dropping by Mount Carmel on a near-daily basis to deliver their weapons and gun parts.

In 1990 Vernon legally changed his name to David Koresh. The paperwork stated that it was "for publicity and business purposes." Koresh believed he was the reincarnation of both King David and King Cyrus of Persia; he had been appointed by God to rebuild the Temple and destroy Babylon. In other words, Koresh claimed to be the Messiah.

By that time, Koresh had already declared that he was owed at minimum 140 wives, and that he was entitled to claim any of the females in the compound as his. Evidently he had fathered at least a dozen babies by the harem. Some were girls as young as 12 or 13 when they got knocked up by the Messiah.

Understandably, federal officials were starting to get Jonestown flashbacks. Then the ATF got wind that the Davidians had failed to pay taxes on a bunch of machine guns that they possessed. So they mounted a now-infamous raid on the Mount Carmel complex in February 1993.

It was completely fu_ked up before the ATF even arrived on-scene. An ambulance company hired by the ATF leaked details of the operation to a local TV station. To verify the story, KWTX-TV dispatched photographer Jim Peeler who discussed the rumor with the Branch Davidians' mailman. The mailman turned out to be David Koresh's brother-in-law David Jones, who immediately passed the information along to the church.

When the ATF finally did show up, all 131 Branch Davidians (as well as a couple of local television news crews) were waiting for them. Not fully appreciating the seriousness of their situation, the ATF chose to plow forward anyway. A team sent to gain ingress through a second-story window were met with immediate gunfire.

All told, the abortive raid cost ten lives, four of them ATF agents. It was followed by a 51-day siege, coordinated under the auspices of the FBI. The siege ended only when Attorney General Janet Reno ordered that the Branch Davidians be hauled out by force, using FBI extraction teams backed by snipers and tanks.

Things went horribly wrong when something caught the place on fire. Based on the resulting arson investigation and audio surveillance conducted inside the buildings, it seems likely that cult members themselves lit three fires simultaneously, possibly as an ill-conceived defensive tactic. Surveillance tapes reportedly indicate Koresh discussing "spreading fuel" -- tapes which the FBI denied any knowledge of.

Not helping matters any were the FBI's pyrotechnic CS tear-gas grenades, which the agency swore had not been used, until they were forced to admit it six years after the fact. Further loss of life occurred because the FBI deliberately rendered inoperable all exits to the burning building, logic apparently dictating that in order to save the children, they had to destroy them.

Timothy McVeigh was one of the civilian spectators hanging around outside the perimeter. Two years later, he chose the Waco anniversary to blow up the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City.

[Hegemony Cricket]

Welcome to FR, Lauralee! I wish FR had been around when I was 18, but unfortunately Al Gore hadn't even invented the internet then. :-) Stick around here, and ignore the guff you get from some "old-timers", and you will get an amazing and priceless education for free!

[normy]

The Dentists explanation is ridiculous.

There was a man in Waco Tx. who believed he was the Messiah. He had a number of followers. The ATF wanted him because they alleged he had illegal weapons. His followers believed Armageddon would come and the government would try to kill them all.

Now this man came and went regularly as did his followers. They shopped in town and the locals would even go shooting on their property. These people were strange but no stranger than any other commune.

One day the ATF showed up in body armor and surrounded the complex, (there was a church and a daycare and storage buildings). They wanted to serve Koresh with a warrant so they barged in and two officers were shot by the residents of the place. In the shoot out Koresh was also shot but not killed.

Talks went back and forth as Koresh stalled for time. This lasted for weeks, in the mean time a TV movie was made about Koresh to sway public opinion against Koresh. The FBI took over and used a tank to punch holes in the building and insert CS gas. The FBI explained how the gassed them for eight hours in order to clog the masks they had. The FBI eventually set the building on fire killing over 80 men women and children inside.

In the aftermath charred bodies of eight year olds were found with broken backs due to convulsions from the CS gas, as they had no gas masks small enough to fit them. The FBI later came in with bulldozers and cleared the crime scene. Local authorities such as the Texas Rangers and arson investigators were steamed because the disruption of the crime scene made it impossible to tell what had happened for sure. The gov't did a joke of an investigation and swept it away.

The Governor of Texas at the time was Democrat Ann Richards who would be defeated in '94 by George W. Bush.

The people murdered by the government were of different races and even different nationalities. There were Brits and Australians as well as Americans.

I would suggest going to Amazon.com and searching for a documentary I first saw on HBO. I bought it at Amazon years ago and I believe the title was "Waco, a national tragedy" The cover shows the building in flames and the word Waco in bold red letters at the top.

[DBrow]

Here's an interesting tidbit to research- the only four Federal agents to die (they got shot under suspicious circumstances in the initial raid) were former Bill Clinton bodyguards from Arkansas.

Also, Janet Reno, who took "full responsibility" later on, spluttered to an TV interviewer:

"...but...but.. I was not made aware..bu..Web Hubble was there, he was in charge..I...I..." Paraphrased, natch, but a good TV quote to look up if you can find it.

She aploogized for the whole affair of sending in military force,stating that someone had falsely convinced her there was a meth lab on site. There was no lab and there was no evidence of one before or after. DEA rules allow using the military in such circumstances- otherwise posse comatatus law rules out civilian use of military assets, another good thing to look up. So who committed the felony of lying to a government official in a fiasco that resulted in 90 or so deaths? Why was that person never named, indcicted, or punished?

Lon Horiuchi, of Randy Weaver fame, was next door in a house, where they found a bunch of .308 casings, but the former FBI sniper claims he never fired a shot.

A report from the Texas Rangers discusses what they found in the smouldering wreckage. They mention "spent gas cannisters with residues of aluminum and iron oxide". See if you can find that report- aluminum and iron oxide is thermite, not tear gas. Nor is it a flashbang, which are aluminum and potassium perchlorate.

Anyway, just thought I'd mention some interesting aspects of Waco. Have fun, use the FR archives, Google, ad try to see some of the movies.

[Saundra Duffy]

All I know is that I'll never forgive Clinton and Reno for torturing and murdering those 24 innocent CHILDREN!!!!!!!!

[SWAMPSNIPER]

A question asked in good faith does not deserve a rude answer.
If We would claim to be keepers of truth, I believe a certain obligation goes with it.
I hope Your wise a$$ attitude does not reflect on Me.

[conservativebabe]

Buy David Limbaugh's book Absolute Power, There is an entire chapter dedicated to that fiasco.

[conservativebabe]

You go, I am loving this. Sometimes people around here are really quick to jump down someone's throat. It's too bad really, most are very kind and helpful.

[conservativebabe]

I also forgot to mention that the book is awesome. Waco is just one of the horrible mistakes made by Clinton and Reno addressed in the book. It's a great read if you want to buy it, otherwise, just go to the library and checki it out.

I'll never forget the day Waco happened. I was stunned and sickened at the sensless loss of life.

[herewego]

Welcome!!

[ChefKeith]

In a nutshell: A bunch of goofballs thought a paranoid dolt named David "Koresh" was a reincarnation of Christ, hunkered down and bunkered up, and refused to let authorities arrest Koresh for some weapons charges. Pot shots fired back and forth. Bill and Reno gave the go-ahead to gas them after 50(?) or so days in hopes they'd give up. Koresh thought it was time for the armageddon blues so he and his idiot followers set fire to their compound, burning itself and themselves up. Some died of inhalation, some smothered, some of gunshot wounds.

WRONG!!!!,

The fedscum had plenty of chances to arrest Koresh as he went to town on a regular basis and even talked with the Sheriff.

The fedscum planted an agent in the group.

The Bad Attitude Towards Freedom stormed the place after the planted agent was outted.

The fedscum after x42/reno gave the orders sent a TANK from Ft. Hood into the compound and PUMPED THE BUILDING FULL OF CS GAS and THEN SET FIRE TO IT TO COVER THE SCREW-UPS BY THE fedscum.

LLB- do a search here on FR as well plenty of info here too. And pay no mind to theDentist version it's total BS!

What the whole thing boiled down to was false accusations of illegal weapons and the x42 administration MURDERED innocent people to further the agenda of "gun control" and the screw-up was tarnishing the first 100 days of the x42 admin.

[7.62 x 51mm]

Wake up, chum.

LauraleeBraswell
Since Oct 26, 2004

If she can't figure it out by now, it's hopeless. WTH hasn't heard about GOOGLE?!

unix sucks; don't lump me into that garbage. And don't presume to tell me what to do or say, twerp.

[7.62 x 51mm]

Oh pullllllease, S. Crawl back up on your faux-cross. Phew!

[ChefKeith]

If and How were Janet Reno and President Bill Clinton involved and what did they do?

There is no "if" and they MURDERED INNOCENT PEOPLE AND GOT AWAY WITH IT!!!

Because of the mainscummedia most people believe the line of BS theDentist fed You.