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Annals of Internal Medicine
1 posted on 11/10/2004 7:16:07 PM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem

E is a fat-soluble vitamin - and as such excess amounts accumulates instead of being flushed like is true for the water soluble vitamins (B and C).

A, D, and E are all toxic at high doses - I thought that was long-established.


2 posted on 11/10/2004 7:22:52 PM PST by jdege
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To: neverdem
Interesting...

Just as FLAME BAIT since I haven't read the article...

Could it be possible that the studies looked at HEART PATIENTS (already at increased risk of death) and found higher incidence of mortality due to the population studied?

By analogy if one studied runners (Jim Fixx...) who had a family history of heart disease, would the study conclude that running was not ameliorative?

Oh, did Pfizer or Merck help fund this work?

[Asbestos suit DONNED while running away, popping Vitamin E capsules...]

3 posted on 11/10/2004 7:25:39 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: neverdem

They forgot to test me. Have been taking 1200 IU daily since 1976. Checked the obits today & I still wasn't there...


4 posted on 11/10/2004 7:28:03 PM PST by pookie18
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To: neverdem

Funny, the study doesn't tell us what KIND of vitamin E. It has been known by those on the cutting edge for some time now that most Vit E supplements are only comprised of alpha tocopherols, which actually eliminates other forms of the vitamin like gamma, which may be more important.

A complete Vitamin E with all the various subfractions and forms is much less likely to have any negative consequence and is much more likely to have positive consequences.

Most who take E supplements are likely taking a very inferior form that very well could be a problem, but certainly is helping less than it should.

All the Doctors quoted in the article could certainly mention that not all Vit E Supps are the same and the study cold have noted that poor quality, unbalanced E supps may the real problem, but they would rather blame Vit E in the generic sense. Us rubes can't be trusted to critically think about the matter, so they simplify it for us. They would love to outlaw supps altogether so that we can depend on them for costly pharmaceuticals, which generally have more questionable safety records themselves!

This leads me to conclude that the study is simply another scare piece, pushed by somebody with an anti-supplement bias. If that bias was centered around shoddy marketing practices by the supplement industry or general supplement ignorance, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Yet typically, these kinds of studies are advanced by those on a crusade against supplementation in general, with a relious zealotry that the concept itself is somehow evil.


7 posted on 11/10/2004 7:52:06 PM PST by bluefish (Holding out for worthy tagline...)
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To: fourdeuce82d; El Gato; JudyB1938; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Robert A. Cook, PE; lepton; LadyDoc; jb6; ...

FReepmail me if you want on or off my health and science ping list.


10 posted on 11/10/2004 8:22:28 PM PST by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: neverdem
That led them to conclude that there were 39 additional deaths per 10,000 people who were taking vitamin E doses exceeding 400 international units a day.

No mention of control groups. No mention of other possible contributing factors.

The old saying about correlation not equaling causation is certainly true in regard to this meta study.

Once vitamin E is available by prescription only it's safety and efficacy will be trumpeted. < / sarcasm >

12 posted on 11/10/2004 8:31:46 PM PST by Freebird Forever
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To: neverdem
"Dr. Miller said he began the study when he was asked to write a chapter on antioxidants and heart disease for a textbook on preventive cardiology. When he looked at data from clinical trials, however, he noticed that many seemed to show that vitamin users had more heart disease, not less."

WELL...DUH....maybe those who THINK they may have or get heart disease take more VIT E. Plus, if these people use vitamins primarily, instead of food, for nutrition, that could also be a problem. I am at war with the alliopathic industry right now (on a personal level)....so please ignore my rant.

13 posted on 11/10/2004 8:33:07 PM PST by goodnesswins (Tax cuts, Tax reform, social security reform, Supreme Court, etc.....the next 4 years.....)
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To: neverdem

There are a couple different types of Vitamin E. I use d-Alpha tocopherol. It has been shown in numerous studies going back to the 1950's to be extremely safe, even in large doses. 'Mixed' tocopherol's are unstable and were probably the ones used in this study.


15 posted on 11/10/2004 8:48:53 PM PST by Slyfox
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To: neverdem

GINA KOLATA is the NYT science reporter who wrote about 10 years ago that AIDS had been eradicated from a corpse of a man who died from AIDS.

I remember stickers all over the NYC subways and on NYT newspaper vendor boxes that said, "GINA KOLATA the worst science reporter in America."

If I recall, she is related to someone high up in the NYT organization, which is why her job was protected.


16 posted on 11/10/2004 9:00:31 PM PST by japaneseghost
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To: neverdem

I just have one question. Who funded the study?


17 posted on 11/10/2004 9:07:09 PM PST by dljordan
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To: neverdem

Yes - I am sure they want to scare people. Dr. Schultz years ago did experiments on people (including his own mom who had heart problems) on the benefits and side effects of taking large doses of Vitamin E. He found it is good for heart patients.

Although there are precautions on taking supplents like Vitamins A and E -there are plenty of people who have been taking large doses of those vitamins for a number of years.

I believe the government should - instead - go after the drug companies that kill more poeple with their pills than you could find in all the natural supplement industry!

There are many more people that are injured or die with medicines that were prescribed by their doctors than people who take supplements!

And people do not take time to read up on the fine little print of the tablets they are prescribed by their doctors before taking the pills.

For instance - even my doctor was surprised that I knew that the ingredient that Premarin is made from is pregnant mare's urine. There has been controvery on that but that is what it said in the sheet with tiny print in the box the Premarin came in. I read that the last time (a few years ago) when I was reading what ingredients and side effects were from taking Premarin.

I just feel - People are responsible for their own health!

Read up on the meds and natural you take!


20 posted on 11/10/2004 9:20:43 PM PST by Anita1
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