Posted on 10/28/2004 6:43:59 PM PDT by Sonar5
Hi all,
I need some help and I am fuming about this. Today an incident happened at my son's school that concerns me greatly.
He is in 4th Grade and is age nine. One of his friends brought a small pocket knife to school and allegedly showed it to my son and others at their lunch table. Apparently he did not open the blade, and quickly put it away. No one was threatened. They are all friends in scouts, church, or sports.
One of the other children after lunch, not mine, told a teacher about it. I get a phone call at about 1:15 stating my son was involved in an incident at school. I ask first is he ok, the administrator says yes.
She then explains that my son and others failed to tell an adult or teacher they saw someone else with a knife at school and that she questioned my son. I asked if he was threatened, and she replied no.
She stated the student who brought it would probably be expelled. I thought that was the end of it, since my son didn't bring the knife, no one was threatened, and my son, nor anyone else held it, nor was the blade even shown.
First off, these are 9 year olds. And I'm ok with the kid that told, and whatever happens to the kid that brought it happens. My son didn't feel it was serious.
My concern is the treatment of my son as having done something wrong.
My son got home about 3:40 or so, and I immediately asked him what happened, who was involved, was he threatened, did he or anyone else hold it, etc....
He then told me he was interrogated without my knowledge inside a closed room with only him and the administrator and talked to about what he did wrong by not telling an adult, asked questions, and the administrator was writing down the responses. Two other children who did not say anything were also subjected to this interrogation, seperately.
He and the two others were then pulled out of class before recess and during recess were taken to the office where they, without my knowledge were coerced into writing false statements stating they made bad choices by not telling an adult, and one other example of making a bad choice.
All three were told if they did not bring the form signed by a parent tomorrow, they would miss recess.
So, now my son is made out to have done something wrong. By the way, the administrator signed the form at the top.
My son was never advised of his rights to call us, and have us present, was never advised why he had to write the form, and we were never notified of the form until our son arrived home.
My son is in Scouting and considers a knife a tool, and knows the difference between showing something and getting threatened. He has also been trained in the proper use of a knife, a safety circle, etc... He knew what the student did was wrong, and he knew not to bring those types of items to school.
So what would you do.
We are not signing the form, and I talked to him about his rights, and the fact he did nothing wrong, the student who told did nothing wrong, the only one who did something wrong was the student who brought it, and the way he was treated.
I then went into explaining his rights to him, and about no longer answering any questions without us present.
So put yourself in my shoes, and ask what you would do. I felt the initial incident was no big deal, neither did my son at first. Now I feel my son and we as parents were violated in our rights, as well as our sons.
BTW - I tried calling the administrator who called earlier, and tried to tell her we were not returning the form, and we feel he shouldn't have to miss recess, and be punished, and she replied she didn't like my tone, and then stated the conversation is over, and hung up on me. Nice, huh?
Any help would be appreciated.
Regards, Sonar5
That isn't the harm I was thinking of. I meant the harmful effect of teaching the kid that the rules don't apply to him, that the school has no authority, that he is untouchable and his parents will fight the school if they try.
Those parents are going to be called to the school a LOT. And the poor kid will make a lousy student, and a lousy employee.
I think ~that~ must be what is holding me back from making Supreme Court Justice. ;~D
LOL
So I'm sunk then? No great judicial career, stuck arguing the lowly principles of Free Republic Parenting Vanities? ;~D
;~D
All three were told if they did not bring the form signed by a parent tomorrow, they would miss recess.
What was the other bad choice? Knowing what else they claim he did wrong might have an effect on the legal situation.
I don't think any of his rights were violated, not yet at least. He hasn't been punished.
What you need to do is schedule a meeting with the principal and administrator and identify your concerns, but don't bother complaining about things that might come off as petty, like the mere fact that they asked him questions about the knife.
Where I think you have an upper hand is to ask what makes the school believe that your son knew that the school would consider his failure to snitch on his friend to be a "bad choice"? Is there a written policy that states as much? Have all of the children been advised that failure to snitch would be considered punishable? Ask questions about the child being forced to acknowledge "bad choices" when the child and parents were not advised that failure to snitch could be punishable. You need to go on offense where you can without being offensive.
Snitching on a pal is counterintuitive. It may be entirely appopriate in certain situations, but not in most, and that's why the school ought to bear responsibility for providing adequate notice to parents and education to the kids that there's a snitch requirement before (1) demanding that they acknowledge in writing that any failure to snitch will be considered a "bad choice" and (2) that they will be subject to discipline and/or punishment together with a permanent record if they and/or their parents refuse to acknowledge that failure to snitch is a "bad choice". Knowing what the other "bad choice" was might help me guide you in distinguishing between the two - for instance, there may be an express written policy about the other bad act. Why is there no written snitch policy?
You should be able to have the statement torn up. Then explain to your child that the school over-reacted and that you took care of it. Thank him for discussing the situation with you. Remind him that what his friend did was wrong, and tell him that if he senses a dangerous situation, he could be a hero one day if others are saved because he spoke up.
I have no idea how to deal with the other bad choice because I don't know what it is.
"You all sound like you are raising kids who, when they get in trouble at school, get their parents to fight for them and get them out of it.'
No, I did not do that, believe me. But the point I am trying to make is that there are a lot of little tin-pot dictator types who find their way into positions at schools were they can "lord it over" people, as the Brits say. Just like there are a lot of cops who otherwise would be criminals.
That is just reality. And it IS part of the job of a parent to be an advocate for one's child, and to teach them to stick up for themselves and for what is right. Not just blindly follow "authority".
And, as I said before, it has not been established, for the purposes of the discussion here, that Sonar's son had an obligation to report the knife. If he did have one, that might change some of my views, but I would not want to get a call from my child's school giving me one impression of things, and come home to find that a bunch of other stuff had happened behind my back.
The interference of schools in the parent/child relationship is always to be deplored. But parents should generally be supportive of the school too, but parents should be treated as ADULTS by the schools, not just as another class of charges.
Hair, I'm really thinking you don't have kids, it's one thing to be a kid, and have those experiences with teachers, principals, etc. as a kid. The shoe is on the other foot once one becomes a parent. It's tremendous, talk about your new ball of wax!
I still get nervous sitting in a principal's office, I'm sure I always will. But, as a parent, I've got to make sure my kid gets a fair shake. That's all, just a fair shake, not you can do whatever you want, and I'll run interference. But as we all know, the world is not fair, so you can't always assume the school is in the right.
You didn't comment.
Is it your opinion that girls are free to kick boys in the groin because boys are 'supposed' to just let it happen. If the girl happens to connect oh well, too bad for the boy in severe pain. Is that your position?
LOL, that actually sounds like something I might do!!!
I think the key to not losing my mind with all this crazy stuff is being fair both ways. If my children are wrong they know I will come down hard on them and the officials know I won't back them up if they are being childish & unfair. I think my children learned to get along at school without too much craziness just because they knew I would come down on them if they were in the wrong.
My youngest does not like school and it has been a trial to get her to keep up. One day when she was in 2nd grade she decided to just refuse to do her assigned work. Her teacher called me and I asked to talk to my daughter. I told her to apologize to the teacher for being disrespectful and disrupting the class. I also told her to get right to work or I would come to the school and paddle her. We also had another "discussion" about the problem that afternoon when she got home. She is in high school now and I have never had another call from a teacher about a problem with her.
There are some truly great teachers and even a few ok admin. types- but some are really a$$e$ who abuse their authority. Of course some parents are really over the top too. Just like everything else, a few make it hard for everyone.
The kid wasn't even punished here! And if he didn't know before that he should have reported it, he does now, through the 'lesson' he signed. There is no 'unfair shake' being presented. The parent here should just sign the note.
That's great. There are a lot of parents who will never admit their child is capable of wrong.
Well, mine didn't come with instructions. I had to figure stuff out as I went along :')
And just what might my case be considering it would be her word against his?
I've already been down their road. He got in trouble for shaking his finger at a person. The person had pulled his chair out from under him as he was getting ready to sit down. He fell on the floor and got up and shook his finger at the person. The teacher told me that my son had a poor attitude. I asked what they did to the child that pulled the chair away.
They said they didn't do anything and acted like I was crazy for even asking.
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